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Subject: Why do you *earn* a Energize card for losing a battle? rss

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I understand earning 2 Energize cards for pwning the Monolith, but I don't understand why you would win something powerful for losing a battle.
 
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Alex Martinez
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It's simply meant as a balancing factor that keeps one player from running away with the game. Losers get a consolation prize that might help them later on.

Bottom Line: It's for game balance and to keep things competative.
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Carla Harper
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Thematically, I think of it as emergency-motivated use of reserve energies.
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I think it was intended to discourage turtling, which is a problem in so many other multiplayer battle games. It accomplishes that goal quite effectively.
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Sphere wrote:
I think it was intended to discourage turtling, which is a problem in so many other multiplayer battle games. It accomplishes that goal quite effectively.

Actually, I think it is the mission cards that discourage turtling, since you don't gain anything if you don't attack.

It is just a catch up mechanism. The winner of a battle gets a VP (or more) while the loser gets a card as compensation, maybe to be stronger in the next battle.
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mads l. brynnum
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Theme wise it makes lots of sense. If you loose a battle and thus an important objective, your corporation will send extra ressources to help you in the fight against the competetors. As long as you're doing fine and not loosing, they can use their money in other places.

But that being said, I figure it's more a balancing thing than any thing else. And a quite good one at that.
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Quote:
Game play wise it does two things:

It encourages combat, since even if you lose you get something, while the guy sitting around doing nothing gets nothing.


I thought that when you attack on your turn, if you lose you get *nothing*! You only get the energize card if you lose when you're attacked by someone else...

The mechanism that encourages combat is the victory points, as you obviously have to have those to win.
 
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Garry Haggerty
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Quote:
I thought that when you attack on your turn, if you lose you get *nothing*! You only get the energize card if you lose when you're attacked by someone else...


That's correct.

"If it's another player's turn when you lose a battle you draw 1 Energize card. If you attack on your turn and lose all your units in a battle, you don't draw an Energize card, and your opponent can't play a Mission card." -- pg. 9

 
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It discourages turtling because 'turtling' means you've built a wall that is tough to pentrate. With the energize cards, it's not necessarily bad to leave a guy out by himself to be destroyed to earn a card.
 
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FlyingArrow wrote:
It discourages turtling because 'turtling' means you've built a wall that is tough to pentrate. With the energize cards, it's not necessarily bad to leave a guy out by himself to be destroyed to earn a card.


LOL. Yes it is. That one card you got will cost you at least 1 VP, maybe 2 or 3, depending on your opponents' secret mission cards. At least if you want to win. Few energize cards are worth much more than the units that died earning them.
 
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out4blood wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
It discourages turtling because 'turtling' means you've built a wall that is tough to pentrate. With the energize cards, it's not necessarily bad to leave a guy out by himself to be destroyed to earn a card.


LOL. Yes it is. That one card you got will cost you at least 1 VP, maybe 2 or 3, depending on your opponents' secret mission cards. At least if you want to win. Few energize cards are worth much more than the units that died earning them.


But that guy isn't out there simply to die and earn a card. He may be on a mine, or threatening one. This was what I meant originally when I said the energize cards discourage turtling. They aren't the only thing that works to that end, but they are a factor.
 
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out4blood wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
It discourages turtling because 'turtling' means you've built a wall that is tough to pentrate. With the energize cards, it's not necessarily bad to leave a guy out by himself to be destroyed to earn a card.


LOL. Yes it is. That one card you got will cost you at least 1 VP, maybe 2 or 3, depending on your opponents' secret mission cards. At least if you want to win. Few energize cards are worth much more than the units that died earning them.


I think this depends on the situation. If I am preparing for a crucial battle elsewhere (taking the Monolith or targeting my enemy's main force) I may choose to give up a human and some VP's to get another Energize card that may help in that next conflict.

Also I have on occasion held a Mission Card that offers VP's for winning a battle in a given terrain (eg. Magma Pool). If I control the Magma Pools I have been known to make an attack with units out of the Pool so it is left all but undefended. If an enemy sees an easy attack and takes it I can then attack them back and earn the VP's if successful.

I agree that the Energize cards for losing a battle on another player's turn is purely a balance mechanic.
 
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Simon Harris
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SanguinousRex wrote:
I understand earning 2 Energize cards for Owning the Monolith, but I don't understand why you would win something powerful for losing a battle.

I believe the OP was referring to the thematic rationale rather than the in-game one but it's a valid question all the same. I think we all agree that it is a useful game balancing device but I can think of a couple of similar devices even within my own (small) gaming experience! Look on it as a sort of 'charity' - I was thinking specifically of 'CHOAM Charity' in Dune.
Perhaps a 'geeklist' from someone with more time on their hands than me - 'Thematic Game Balancing Devices'. Just a thought.

Simon
 
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David Sears
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mads b. wrote:
Theme wise it makes lots of sense. If you loose a battle and thus an important objective, your corporation will send extra resources to help you in the fight against the competitors. As long as you're doing fine and not loosing, they can use their money in other places.


Sounds good to me. IF you are really worried about how each element of a game ties in with the theme then use some imagination. Its unfortunate that our society has to be force fed most everything and that few take the time to think for themselves.

If you are hired to perform a task and you fail (on your turn) you get squat. If a competitor starts stealing your resources (their turn you lose) then your corporation will send in extra help (energy cards). If you use those resources (units and energy cards) on your turn to complete the corporations objectives then you get recognition (VP).

More with the theme, maybe the planet and rubium themselves have special qualities. Somehow dragons get 'power' from the Monolith, Leapers get 'power' from the Magma pools, Fungoids and Crystalines get 'power' from their respective terrains and lose 'power' in the opposite. Many cards indicate that Fungoids/Crystalines can also regenerate and transport to any other Forest/Spire?! Sounds like a cool alien planet to me. And lets all remember that humans (us included as agents of our corporations) are the real aliens and don't completely understand the planet.

It's a game, games are fun, use your brain, that's what it's there for. I am sure the OP really doesn't have a problem with the game or theme but was just commenting on the seeming misuse of the word *earn*. I am also not trying to offend any one so please don't see this as that but just making a point. The theme rocks, the game rocks, and you all ROCK!

Just my 3 cents.
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Paul Elliott
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I always just rationalize it this way: when you lose, you learn from your mistakes. Or maybe you weed out the weak links in your army--the cowards run, the idiots die, and the incompetent officers get sacked. For a game as light as Nexus Ops, this is enough to satisfy me.
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Carla Harper
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harris_family wrote:
Perhaps a 'geeklist' from someone with more time on their hands than me - 'Thematic Game Balancing Devices'. Just a thought.


That's a wonderful idea, Simon! Get to work!
 
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Simon Harris
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Taavet wrote:
mads b. wrote:
Theme wise it makes lots of sense. If you loose a battle and thus an important objective, your corporation will send extra resources to help you in the fight against the competitors. As long as you're doing fine and not loosing, they can use their money in other places.

It's a game, games are fun, use your brain, that's what it's there for. I am sure the OP really doesn't have a problem with the game or theme but was just commenting on the seeming misuse of the word *earn*. I am also not trying to offend any one so please don't see this as that but just making a point. The theme rocks, the game rocks, and you all ROCK!

Just my 3 cents.

Very well put cool - 'use your brain', I can live with that

Simon
 
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It occurs to me that Battlelore has a similar feature.

In Battlelore, when ever you roll combat dice and don't get "hits", you have an increased chance of getting Lore points. So, the looser of the battle gains power for the next conflict. It is a little better hidden in Battlelore but its end result is the same, better ballence.
 
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