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Subject: Splotter games - Indonesia, Antquity and Roads and Boats rss

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Mike Kollross
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OK, assuming you owned all three but have never played any of them.

What order would you suggest learning and playing them in? Is there a progression of complexity from Indonesia to Antiquity to Roads and Boats?

Would you pause at one and play it several times before moving on?
 
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Pedro
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I've never played R&B or Indonesia, but I own and love Antiquity. I had no problem with the rules which are not that hard to assimilate. In fact, I think they are relatively simple and very intuitive.

The difficulties in Antiquity arise when playing the game, because it's a tough, engrossing and complex experience... but that's a good thing, I think! So, to try and answer your question, I think there's no problem in starting with antiquity!
 
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Larry Rice
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I haven't played R&B yet....partially played Antiquity...have played Indonesia.

Based on that and the rules, I think Indonesia is the easiest to learn and play, then Antiquity, then Roads and Boats. I'm not sure any of them are particularly difficult, but the fiddliness certainly increases in that order.
 
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Sterling Babcock
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I would consider Antiquity more fiddly than Roads and Boats.
 
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Jorge Montero
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Indonesia, then Roads and Boats, and finally Antiquity.
 
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Lajos
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Roads and Boats is advanced Settlers. It's pretty easy to learn and to play. Indonesia and Antiquity are slightly more complicated. Indonesia is an economic game on the same level of complexity as 18xx games IMO, but the rules are quite digestible. I think, Antiquity requires the most effort in learning. Hence, I would propose: 1) R&B; 2: Indonesia; and 3) Antiquity. (All three are brilliant games, BTW.)
 
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CHAPEL
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Lajos wrote:
Roads and Boats is advanced Settlers.


Minus luck. Sorry just had to add.
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Jeff Wiles
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hibikir wrote:
Indonesia, then Roads and Boats, and finally Antiquity.


Exactly.

Indonesia feels more similar to other designer games than the other two (not to call Indonesia unoriginal - far from it!) I'd start with Indonesia, then tackle R&B. R&B is slightly less fiddly and complex than Antiquity, and it's also more forgiving for a first-time player.

Is this a real-life situation you are trying to make a decision over? Lucky you!!
 
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Jerry Hagen
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Don't know Indonesia, but agreed on the unforgiving nature of Antiquity. If you're new to Splotter games, you can really hose yourself in Antiquity, to the point where your cities are filled with graves and you just don't have a very fun experience. I saw this happen in my first game, where the other newbie at the table went into a death spiral and to the best of my knowledge hasn't played since. In R&B, you won't win if you don't plan well, but at least you will continue to develop.

That said, I find Antiquity more rewarding than R&B on the third or fourth play, so I definitely recommend it.
 
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Mike Kollross
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jeffwiles wrote:

Is this a real-life situation you are trying to make a decision over? Lucky you!!


All three are on the way as we speak. I can't wait.
 
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Joe Wyka
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I own all three, but I haven't gotten Indonesia to the table yet. I definitely recommend R&B before Antiquity, mostly because of the "death spiral" potential of Antiquity. Know that in my first game, though, all players saw the potential for devastation and were able to steer clear of massive deaths (although I found myself stuck with no wood at a certain point in my first game and thus with no ability to build a woodsman and harvest more - another player gave me a pity trade to at least get me going again, but my winning was a lost cause at that point...)

Also, with R&B, you can play a few solo games and familiarize yourself with the rules and some of the nuances first, so you'll be able to teach the game better when you get that chance.
 
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Mike Kollross
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Quote:
Also, with R&B, you can play a few solo games and familiarize yourself with the rules and some of the nuances first, so you'll be able to teach the game better when you get that chance
.

This is something I have gotten into the habbit of doing. Its a little hard on the brain but really helps clarify game play.
 
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Dave Eisen
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Indonesia would be my last choice of the three, only because it is not as good a game and because the computational nature of it leaves a bad taste in some people's mouths.

Roads and Boats and Antiquity are both brilliant for what they are, both fiddly and a little long. I don't see a real reason to get one on the table before the other. You should have no problem with the rules of either if you have some experience with designer games: both have very very well-written rules.

Both probably play best with 3, by the way, but play well throughout the entire range of 2-4.
 
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Joe Wyka
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Yes, but R&B is actually DESIGNED for solo play. So much better than sitting in three or four seats and developing a personality disorder! arrrhzombierobotninja
 
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Mike Kollross
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Quote:
Yes, but R&B is actually DESIGNED for solo play. So much better than sitting in three or four seats and developing a personality disorder!


Thats the part that makes my head hurt.

10 "Who am I now"
20 "What was I doing"
30 goto 10
1 
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Mark C
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Have all 3. Played all 3.

Here's my suggestion:

If you plan on learning solo:

Either R&B or Antiquity works fine. Antiquity plays solotaire quite well when learning, and is a little more compact in the sense that you can play it to conclusion much more quickly once you've played it a time or two. I think the theme of Antiquity is much more immersive, which can make it a lot of fun to pick up on your own. R&Bs is the classic though.

If you're playing with more players:
Indonesia is definitely more gamer friendly, and Board Games with Scott has an episode on it. Indonesia is also fairly quick compared to R&B. Our games last about 90 minutes to 2 hours. Antiquity is more like 2-3 hours. R&Bs 4-5. All of these are MUCH longer when you first play them, and only Indonesia doesn't stretch out too much with more players. I rate Antiquity the highest, but I've not played R&Bs all that much. Indonesia by comparison is a fairly light econ/auction game.

Enjoy!
 
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Michael Leuchtenburg
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Solamar wrote:
I would consider Antiquity more fiddly than Roads and Boats.

jeffwiles wrote:
R&B is slightly less fiddly and complex than Antiquity


I assume you don't mean this in the physical sense. Physically, R&B is way more fiddly than Antiquity, with all those tiny counters all over the map. At least in Antiquity, the number of counters per tile is limited, and they don't move in as many directions.

I playd R&B then Antiquity. I found it much easier to plan in Antiquity than R&B. It may have more individual mechanics with all the different buildings - although there are only slightly more buildings than in R&B, their effects are more varied - but the things you need to do are much simpler to think about. Antiquity has more mechanics, but their interaction is simpler than in R&B.
 
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Sterling Babcock
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dyfrgi wrote:
Solamar wrote:
I would consider Antiquity more fiddly than Roads and Boats.

I assume you don't mean this in the physical sense. Physically, R&B is way more fiddly than Antiquity, with all those tiny counters all over the map. At least in Antiquity, the number of counters per tile is limited, and they don't move in as many directions.

I do mean in the physical sense. In Antiquity, you end up the game with pollution and counters everywhere. Whenever you farm or fish, you put down a stack of two counters per small hex. You almost need tweezers to get at pieces it feels like.

In Roads and Boats, you do end up with a lot of counters, but over time you are converting those goods to more valuable goods. Counters get removed as you convert them to more valuable items.

I suspect, though, that I am a bit myopic as far as Roads and Boats is concerned. I like it so much that at the end of the game I look and am surprised at the time that has passed and all the goods that are there.

I also enjoy Antiquity, and I understand the need for pollution (marks stuff having been used), but it feels to me like there are counters and buildings everywhere.

I guess it comes down to your interpretation.
 
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