Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: How important is the point limit for casual play? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Santi Velasco
Spain
Mairena del Aljarafe
Seville
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, now that I have collected a good sized casual collection I am using the Squadron Builder (lots of fun btw) to try and make some cool squadrons. I have settled for 60 points squadrons so we can have quick casual 1 vs 1 matches, or we can pit 2 vs 2 (120 pts) when we have more players or more time.

The thing is, sometimes it's a little difficult to reach exactly those 60 points, sometimes I fall short by 1 or 2 points, sometimes I overstep; and I don't like adding 1 extra unwanted talent or whatever just for rounding up (and sometimes the numbers simply don't add up). Is the point limit really that accurate? I mean, if I pit, say, a 58 points squadron against a 61 one, is there a noticeable lack of balance?

Keep in mind we just play casual, so the difference won't matter to us unless it is really noticeable and persistent.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andres K
Estonia
Tallinn
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am not sure, but I think the set costs are for a reason. I guess it is ok if you play 58 vs 60 at 60 point limit, but not ok if you play 60 vs 61. I think there are just some combos that are not allowed to fit into 100p limit.

It is really common on tournament levels to keep your squad at 98 or 99 or even 97 to have the initiative, but that's a bit different.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Gloor
Switzerland
Ostermundigen
Bern
flag msg tools
The statement below is false.
badge
The statement above is correct.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Overstepping won't work for me, even outside a tournament context, without both players agreeing that it's fine.

If both players agree that it's fine, then sure, go ahead. But there are always comboes that are possible with just one more point. If you agree that it's fine to overstep your 60 to 61 or 62, you'll almost certainly find a combo that you really want that costs 63 points.

And then, where do you draw the line?

The easiest thing to do is to draw the line before the game starts. If you say "our hard limit is 62 points", then that's it. Whether you also say "and our soft limit is 60 points" is absolutely irrelevant. If you then make initiative depend on how many points the builds go below 60 instead of 62, you'll just make absolutely certain that both players will have exactly 62 points.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Commander Crud
msg tools
mbmbmb
The point limit you agree upon doesn't matter at all, but do not go over that limit. That's the whole point of a limit.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andreas Krüger
Germany
Krefeld
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Squads can be balanced +/- a few points. And you can have unbalanced squads with the same point cost. The challenge is to find the best possible build within the limit. And it may well be that the best build costs only 58 points where your limit is 60.

At tournaments, lower points are rewarded by giving the initiative (or the option to decline it). This can be important or not relevant at all, depending on pilot skills.

So: What the others said. Play up to 60 points, don't worry about a few points less if you like your squad.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John NotBatman

Minnesota
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
For casual play, as long as your opponent agrees to it (and/or you offer them the higher-pointed squad) do what you like. Match-ups are commonly a couple points off, anyway.

Outside of tournaments, you're free to play the game how you like to, so long as your opponent agrees.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Santi Velasco
Spain
Mairena del Aljarafe
Seville
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks everyone.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Barlowe
United States
Clarks Summit
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For casual play (and extra lols), play cross-faction ships.

Try 60 points, at least two ships per player, and at least two from different factions.

That really helps to get everyone to 60 exactly, as there are so many more options when you go cross faction.

Imperials have a lot more <30 point choices also, even <20, it can help you fit a fatter rebel ace in a list, and still get a mini-ace as a wingman (lots of TIE fighters to chose from, instead of a bunch of crappy Zs).

(Have not tried cross faction upgrades, but that could get weird)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Dickson
United States
Orlando
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tournament players often build to less than a 100 points in order to win the initiative bid. I've seen squads go as low as 96 and still be effective. So in casual play, I don't see anything wrong with not coming in right at the point total.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Xander Fulton
United States
Astoria
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
srcabeza wrote:
Thanks everyone.


It's also worth pointing out that the game balance assumes a 100 pt match.

Some upgrades that work okay in a 100 pt format are more than a bit overpowered in 60 pts. R2-D2 and R5-P9, for example.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr. Octatrack
United Kingdom
Rochdale
Greater Manchester
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Casual play is a really fun way to try different ideas, squads and ships you might not normally see. My buddy and I play with a different restriction in play each game.

For example, our last game had the restriction of 'NO UPGRADE CARDS'. I ended up building an awesome squad of Garven Dreis, Airen Cracken, Dutch Vander and Etahn A'baht for exactly 100 points. I wouldn't have even considered this squad if we didn't use the limitation. The previous game was 'ONE UPGRADE CARD PER SHIP' (2x Saber, 2x Royal Guard Interceptors, all with PTL for 98 points).

Some other ideas are:

Must include a large ship
Max pilot skill 5
Min pilot skill 5
Must equip at least 2 bombs
150 point squads
Use 12 asteroids instead of 6 (destructible and movable variant)
No Turrets
Play a mission
No Push the Limit!
etc, etc...

So go ahead and play as you see fit. Sometimes fly casual and sometimes use Tournament rules. It's your game and as long as your opponent agrees then go crazy.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morgan Merchant
United States
Bristol
Indiana
flag msg tools
mb
The points only really matter if your playing equal ability players. If so then make them the same. I will give a new player 60-65pts and only take 45-50 points for my self. This makes it challenging for me and yet teaches a new player. How many tournaments have you found your self facing two ships to your one?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
As long as the other person you're playing is okay with it...I wouldn't even worry about going over the limit by a couple of points.

If my mom went over by a few points, I'd totally be okay with it. In most cases it shouldn't make much of a difference (though of course I could sit here and come up with some scenarios where going over...even by just 2 or 3 points, could be a problem).

Also...do remember that as per the official rules...the person with the fewest points, gets to have initiative. That's pretty dang important, so it's sometimes very strategic to play a few points under the max.

But it's all just casual...so just have fun! That's what's important here
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stuart Cameron
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mb
My son and I just generally throw a few ships on the board of roughly the correct cost (about 100 for me and 115/ 120 for him) and start playing.

If I'm 5 points down and he is 5 up then who cares as long as we get to fly around making pew pew noises at each other.

In tournament play I'd do everything by the book of course but still make pew pew noises.
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Gloor
Switzerland
Ostermundigen
Bern
flag msg tools
The statement below is false.
badge
The statement above is correct.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Suhawk75 wrote:
In tournament play I'd do everything by the book of course but still make pew pew noises.

Absolutely, pew pew noises are essential.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Big Dogg Rulzz
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
Lets here it for the pew...pew....noises. If your opponent is over in points that just means you have to pew a little harder.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Skinner
Canada
Beaumont
Alberta
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The thing to remember about points limits is that the points system is only semi-balanced in itself. That is, not every ship or upgrade that costs X points is equally good (compare Wampa to a Cartel Spacer, for example). A big part of the game is being able to figure out which ship and upgrade combos are the most powerful. Your ability to fly them well together is at least as important, but list-building is definitely a part of the game.

So, while you might find that some ships/upgrades are more powerful at higher or lower points limits, I don't think that the overall game balance changes too wildly at different limits. At 60 points, I think that 5 Academy Pilots would be quite powerful, but a good player will still have a decent chance to beat it. There are several "top tier" lists right now that are, frankly, kind of unbalanced at 100 points but which wouldn't be that scary with a limit of 90 or 110 points.

I'd say that the game will work at just about any points limit (except <12, I suppose) and that while the game balance might shift a bit at different levels, there are enough options in the game to make any points limit balanced enough for a fun game.
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zachary Mott
United States
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
As long as you and your opponent agree on it beforehand, I don't think the actual number matters at all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.