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Subject: A few rules Q's rss

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Greg Lorrimer
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I've concocted a concise version of the Gibson's 1988 rules, but I've got a few issues. So here is my concise version of a rule:

43.7 E7 BUILD CITIES: 12 tokens in a zone to build a city, only 6 for city site. One city per zone maximum. Max 9 cities per player; excess reduced as 43.65. Reduce only at end of E6 and E11. Cannot build more than support of 2 population tokens per city. After cities built, remove excess population (see AGRICULTURE) and tokens still in city zones to stock.

This suggests you CAN build more than 9 cities, but they get reduced in calamities, or if the calamities don’t reduce them then they are reduced according to population support at the calamity stage in any case.

Here's the original rule:


then, another concise rule:

52.1 Resolving calamities : tokens=1 unit, cities=5 units. Cities are eliminated during calamities except where stated, loss of 5 units per city, replaced with max number of tokens for zone, AGRICULTURE 53.8 taken in to account. Removed tokens and cities are returned to stock.

The word ‘except’ also in the original rules, makes me infer that ALL cities get eliminated. But it doesn’t say ‘all’, nor is it clear from the other rules that all cities would get eliminated.

original:



52.2 Volcanoes and earthquakes: All units in volcano zone are lost without respect to ownership. Syracuse and Cumae equally affect all zones they border. If units affected by more than one volcano, may choose which erupts. Earthquake: If player’s units not affected by a volcano, player reduces one city and one city of one other player who has any units adjacent to player’s units, even if separated by water.(ie###EG or IE#, Rhodes and Miletus).

In the original rules the word ‘adjacent’ is used but the result is confusing as it seems to mean both 'in the zone of', and 'an adjacent zone', and sometimes one but not the other.

I somehow forgot to photograph the original rule.

52.5 Civil War : No Civil War with less than 35 units. By flipping on to blank side, ‘secede’ 15 of your units and nominated player flips another 20. Choose to keep flipped or unflipped, nominee changes others to his own tokens from stock. PHILOSOPHY: only player with most tokens in stock, which may be yourself, secedes 15 of your units, then choose. If DEMOCRACY without PHILOSOPHY, 15 units secede and another 30 by nominee, then choose. See part 6 for token or city shortage.


I had understood the rules to mean that the payer and nominee create two flipped groups (as in grouped tokens, not just in the abstract) and then player chooses between the two flipped groups ignoring any other tokens. I really can’t see any other way of reading the rules, but the forum disagrees so I’ve followed the forum. Can someone comment on this?

Original rule:



52.9 Piracy : Lose one coastal city (land zone with sea) per sea-connected ship of opponent who traded the card. See connection includes affects of astronomy at 53.6.

Does sea connection mean the number of moves a ship could make in a turn? Or does it mean just being connected by water? I’ve added the bit about astronomy assuming the former.

Original:




63. Multiple Actions. Separate in to individual actions, then as in 62

Could anyone give an example?
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David Chapman
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itsastickup wrote:

43.7 E7 BUILD CITIES: 12 tokens in a zone to build a city, only 6 for city site. One city per zone maximum. Max 9 cities per player; excess reduced as 43.65. Reduce only at end of E6 and E11. Cannot build more than support of 2 population tokens per city. After cities built, remove excess population (see AGRICULTURE) and tokens still in city zones to stock.

This suggests you CAN build more than 9 cities, but they get reduced in calamities, or if the calamities don’t reduce them then they are reduced according to population support at the calamity stage in any case.


The Gibson edition gives you 12 square tokens. One goes on the AST, one on the census, but that leaves 10 for cities when in the other versions you'd have nine. It's probably better if you leave the last one in the box as a spare and ignore this rule altogether.

Quote:
Here's the original rule:


then, another concise rule:

52.1 Resolving calamities : tokens=1 unit, cities=5 units. Cities are eliminated during calamities except where stated, loss of 5 units per city, replaced with max number of tokens for zone, AGRICULTURE 53.8 taken in to account. Removed tokens and cities are returned to stock.

The word ‘except’ also in the original rules, makes me infer that ALL cities get eliminated. But it doesn’t say ‘all’, nor is it clear from the other rules that all cities would get eliminated.


Some of the disasters say you lose cities; this rule clarifies that they are eliminated, not reduced.

Quote:
original:



52.2 Volcanoes and earthquakes: All units in volcano zone are lost without respect to ownership. Syracuse and Cumae equally affect all zones they border. If units affected by more than one volcano, may choose which erupts. Earthquake: If player’s units not affected by a volcano, player reduces one city and one city of one other player who has any units adjacent to player’s units, even if separated by water.(ie###EG or IE#, Rhodes and Miletus).

In the original rules the word ‘adjacent’ is used but the result is confusing as it seems to mean both 'in the zone of', and 'an adjacent zone', and sometimes one but not the other.


It's "in the zone of". The word "adjacent" is used because the Syracuse and Cumae volcanoes are not in a zone.

Quote:
52.5 Civil War : No Civil War with less than 35 units. By flipping on to blank side, ‘secede’ 15 of your units and nominated player flips another 20. Choose to keep flipped or unflipped, nominee changes others to his own tokens from stock. PHILOSOPHY: only player with most tokens in stock, which may be yourself, secedes 15 of your units, then choose. If DEMOCRACY without PHILOSOPHY, 15 units secede and another 30 by nominee, then choose. See part 6 for token or city shortage.


I had understood the rules to mean that the payer and nominee create two flipped groups (as in grouped tokens, not just in the abstract) and then player chooses between the two flipped groups ignoring any other tokens. I really can’t see any other way of reading the rules, but the forum disagrees so I’ve followed the forum. Can someone comment on this?


The groups are the flipped and unflipped tokens. The player afflicted by Civil War basically splits their empire in two, and the beneficiary gains one half of it.

Quote:
Original rule:



52.9 Piracy : Lose one coastal city (land zone with sea) per sea-connected ship of opponent who traded the card. See connection includes affects of astronomy at 53.6.

Does sea connection mean the number of moves a ship could make in a turn? Or does it mean just being connected by water? I’ve added the bit about astronomy assuming the former.


The ship can be anywhere connected by water, no range limit.

Quote:
Original:




63. Multiple Actions. Separate in to individual actions, then as in 62

Could anyone give an example?


Removing secondary casualties from Epidemic.
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Greg Lorrimer
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Marvellous!!

Thanks so much for that, David.

I've updated my 'concise' rules. I'd love to get feedback on problems or need of clarification. I'm hoping to use this to get people involved in playing the game, where 7 pages of the original rules might be an issue.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2sjR5ucc_5xUy1fRDRUSXdQcGc...
 
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Robert Bracey
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itsastickup wrote:
Marvellous!!

Thanks so much for that, David.

I've updated my 'concise' rules. I'd love to get feedback on problems or need of clarification. I'm hoping to use this to get people involved in playing the game, where 7 pages of the original rules might be an issue.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2sjR5ucc_5xUy1fRDRUSXdQcGc...


I suspect if the length of the original rules is an issue you are not going to get people to play this. Rules wise its far simpler than most modern games. I find it best to explain rules as you go.
Give the experience players Crete and Egypt and ask Egypt to play the early cities strategy. Then explain population growth and movement.
Explain ships as Crete builds one, cities as Egypt builds its two. If you do not use Babylon no one else wants to do these things until after these two nations have done them.
 
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Greg Lorrimer
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It takes quite a bit of time to read the original rules, even if it is a simpler game. And they're not very clear.

It doesn't take any where near as much time to read the concise version. Obviously ambiguities and other artifacts can hinder that, which is why I am keen to get feedback.
 
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