jeremy cobert
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You dont go from broke to multi millionaires without a lot of hustle in your game. Or maybe it was just luck ?
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J.D. Hall
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The Clintons do know how to play the power game. Sort of like how Bush Senior got W. Junior into the Alabama Air National Guard so George Jr. wouldn't have to be deployed to Vietnam.
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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And people wonder why Bernie stays in.
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Jon Badolato
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Meh, certainly cronyism, but in all reality the guy is probably more intelligent and likely about as knowledgeable on most issues as your average congressman on the panel. In case you haven't noticed congress has its fair share of blithering idiots, some of whom may be on this same committee. What would make your average congressman necessarily more of an expert on nuclear matters than this guy, apart from the congressman being briefed and kept up on the latest intelligence and happenings in this realm. I'm certainly OK with getting rid of him.

And this is yet another matter that leads to the simple idea that individual and corporate donors should be limited in their donations. There should be no shock and awe here as this is the way our current system is set up. Can one really be surprised that they do what they do ( on both sides of the aisle. ) In our current political system money=power. You won't see stuff like this abate until you change that equation a bit.
 
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Jon Badolato
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Drew1365 wrote:
This isn't about business cronies. This is about selling top secret intelligence for cold hard cash.

There's a word for that: "Treason."


LOL, what top secret intelligence was sold or otherwise revealed to others by the guy ? Do you have any reason to believe the guy divulged any "top secret intelligence" to anyone other than himself ?

Dude, your efforts to "get" Hillary is shining through. I guess Benghazi is no longer a thing.
 
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Jon Badolato
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And again, shit like this happens all the time in our system because it's set up to work that way. Witness Senator Jim Inhofe. The guys a blithering idiot when it comes to climate change ( see here for proof):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/26/jim-inhofe-climate-...

And yet he chairs the committee on climate change !

The reason he does, even though he has no qualification as a scientist ( and possibly half a brain ) is that special money interests want him there.

Change the money equation and things might improve.
 
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Well, good thing she is learning her lesson now before she becomes President, or she may have another Karl Rove on her hand.

Keep those cronies out!
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James Myers
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I'm not sure why Citizens United is against this -- aren't they fans of spending unlimited amounts of money so you can buy influence that later gets you a government job and the government to go your way?

Anyway, it isn't damning, nothing is -- it's just another Clinton scandal. More will come, and more will wash off, just as Trump will say more racist shit and it won't matter.

These are the "best" in America. Let's get ready to elect a President we'll all be proud of.
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Steven Woodcock
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Drew1365 wrote:
That famous Right Wing Blog ABC News has the story.

A big donor to the Clinton Foundation was rewarded with a position on the International Security Advisory Board. A few days after ABC News started asking uncomfortable questions about how he got on the board, he resigned.

Quote:
Newly released State Department emails help reveal how a major Clinton Foundation donor was placed on a sensitive government intelligence advisory board even though he had no obvious experience in the field, a decision that appeared to baffle the department’s professional staff.

The emails further reveal how, after inquiries from ABC News, the Clinton staff sought to “protect the name” of the Secretary, “stall” the ABC News reporter and ultimately accept the resignation of the donor just two days later.

Copies of dozens of internal emails were provided to ABC News by the conservative political group Citizens United, which obtained them under the Freedom of Information Act after more the two years of litigation with the government.

A prolific fundraiser for Democratic candidates and contributor to the Clinton Foundation, who later traveled with Bill Clinton on a trip to Africa, Rajiv K. Fernando’s only known qualification for a seat on the International Security Advisory Board (ISAB) was his technological know-how. The Chicago securities trader, who specialized in electronic investing, sat alongside an august collection of nuclear scientists, former cabinet secretaries and members of Congress to advise Hillary Clinton on the use of tactical nuclear weapons and on other crucial arms control issues.

“We had no idea who he was,” one board member told ABC News.

Fernando’s lack of any known background in nuclear security caught the attention of several board members, and when ABC News first contacted the State Department in August 2011 seeking a copy of his resume, the emails show that confusion ensued among the career government officials who work with the advisory panel.


. . .

Quote:
The appointment qualified Fernando for one of the highest levels of top secret access, the emails show. Among those with whom Fernando served on the International Security Advisory Board was David A. Kay, the former head of the Iraq Survey Group and United Nations Chief Weapons Inspector; Lt. Gen. Brent Scowcroft, a former National Security Advisor to two presidents; two former congressmen; and former Sen. Chuck Robb. William Perry, the former Secretary of Defense, chaired the panel.

“It is certainly a serious, knowledgeable and experienced group of experts,” said Bruce Blair, a Princeton professor whose principal research covers the technical and policy steps on the path toward the verifiable elimination of nuclear weapons. “Much of the focus has been on questions of nuclear stability and the risks of nuclear weapons use by Russia and Pakistan.”

The newly released emails reveal that after ABC News started asking questions in August 2011, a State Department official who worked with the advisory board couldn’t immediately come up with a justification for Fernando serving on the panel. His and other emails make repeated references to “S”; ABC News has been told this is a common way to refer to the Secretary of State.

“The true answer is simply that S staff (Cheryl Mills) added him,” wrote Wade Boese, who was Chief of Staff for the Office of the Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security, in an email to Mannina, the press aide. “Raj was not on the list sent to S; he was added at their insistence.”



As I've been saying all along: donate to the Clinton foundation, get rewarded with access to top secret intelligence.

The line between the Clinton Foundation scandal and the e-mail scandal is short and thin.



Her list of many, many felonies got a bit longer....

Great Odin, how could any person who claims to be against government corruption even consider this woman in office?



Ferret
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Chad Ellis
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This is only a little bit worse than politics as usual, but it does illustrate my central problem with the Clintons. I think they've transcended cynicism, to the point where something like this is just the way the game is played and they're probably genuinely dismayed that the press wants to pretend that there's anything wrong with it.

They remind me of people I knew from investment banking who did things that were blatantly unethical and in many cases illegal and didn't see themselves as even being in a gray area.

Put another way, when you say that Clinton sold access to the board, you're right -- but the Clintons would think you were being absurd; all they did was the normal practice of rewarding fundraisers and other allies with positions. Isn't that why we have embassies?
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Drew1365 wrote:
Terwox wrote:
I'm not sure why Citizens United is against this -- aren't they fans of spending unlimited amounts of money so you can buy influence that later gets you a government job and the government to go your way?


This might be a good time to remember that the Citizens United case (which you lefties have been instructed to cluelessly whine about) was about trying to prevent Citizens United from promoting a film critical of Hillary Clinton.


Seriously? "The right has been instructed to cluelessly whine about the Clintons."

You can be against unlimited funding without being liberal, ffs.
 
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Chad Ellis
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Drew1365 wrote:
This isn't about business cronies. This is about selling top secret intelligence for cold hard cash.

There's a word for that: "Treason."


Hang on. We're talking about an advisory board. As a rule, those do their own homework and make recommendations. I think a lot of them are wastes of taxpayer money but is there any indication that these board members are given top secret intelligence briefings?

Whoops: I'm wrong. This qualified him for top secret access. That does elevate this to a very different level compared with normal rewarding of donors and bundlers.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:


There's a word for that: "Treason."


Hang on. We're talking about an advisory board. As a rule, those do their own homework and make recommendations. I think a lot of them are wastes of taxpayer money but is there any indication that these board members are given top secret intelligence briefings?


Well, we now have Drew's narrative for the next 8 years. Going full Alex Jones.
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Jon Badolato
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Well, you can't really bitch that much about things like this unless you're willing to get big money donors out of politics. It is inevitable because it's the way the system works and has for many years. It's only gotten worse since Citizens United. And as my previous example with Inhofe points out it happens across party lines.

 
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Jon Badolato
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Sure it's the big money donors that are the issue. Curtail their right to donate huge sums of money and the problem would likely decrease. When those big money donors donate huge sums of money do you think, just maybe that they expect something in return. Most want more access or some measure of power in swaying candidates to their cause. It is a corrupt system, but to sit there, wag your finger at the politicians as the bad guys without noticing the very system which allows them to do this is bankrupt is incredibly naive.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
Whoops: I'm wrong. This qualified him for top secret access. That does elevate this to a very different level compared with normal rewarding of donors and bundlers.

It qualified him, but didn't give him that access. He would still have had to pass all the vetting and background checks required for such access.
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Jon Badolato
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Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Sure it's the big money donors that are the issue. Curtail their right to donate huge sums of money and the problem would likely decrease.


Why must we solve the problem of corrupt politicians by punishing free citizens who wish to exercise their rights?



Free citizens can exercise their right to donate. Just set a cap so that everyone gets to donate up to a certain maximum. A maximum that is reasonably low enough that it's not going to unduly influence a candidate access in the same way donating millions would. It's really not rocket science. It could easily be done.
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Jon Badolato
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Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Sure it's the big money donors that are the issue. Curtail their right to donate huge sums of money and the problem would likely decrease.


Why must we solve the problem of corrupt politicians by punishing free citizens who wish to exercise their rights?



Free citizens can exercise their right to donate. Just set a cap so that everyone gets to donate up to a certain maximum.


Hi! Do you know what "bundlers" are?


I don't have a problem with bundling donations and delivering them at once. As long as no individual exceeds a predetermined reasonable limit as determined by law. Eliminate PACS and SuperPACS as well. Their political influence corrupts the process.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Well, you can't really bitch that much about things like this unless you're willing to get big money donors out of politics.


The problem isn't with "big money donors." The problem is with politicians who willingly sell out the country to big money donors.

Unless you're serious about punishing these politicians, then you aren't serious at all.

And rewarding one of the most corrupt with a ticket to the White House tells me Democrats aren't really serious.


BS. You can stop corruption by trying to police the system (that's going really well now, right?) or you can try to stop corruption by altering the system. Do you really think citizens united has led to LESS government corruption? Let's be conservatives and change the system back to the way it was when America was great. heh.

By the way? If conservative methods worked for policing corruption, I'd be all for them. I'm fine w/ whatever gets rid of the behavior in the OP shown by Hillary et al.

Quote:
jonb wrote:
It's only gotten worse since Citizens United.


 


"You've been told to think that way" isn't even conditioning, unless you think when people shout "Hillary!" and people shout "Benghazi Vince Foster!" that someone is sitting around giving them a cookie for responding correctly. (That's operant, classical would be if someone said "Hillary!" and then handed you a sandwich.)
 
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Jon Badolato
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Well, I've already stated that this type of cronyism is not acceptable by any party. But you seem ridiculously naive that the actual cause of the cronyism is the big money donations that buy influence. Again, getting rid of big money donations would go a long way to eliminating or lessening that kind of influence and this kind of behavior.

 
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Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Well, I've already stated that this type of cronyism is not acceptable by any party. But you seem ridiculously naive that the actual cause of the cronyism is the big money donations that buy influence. Again, getting rid of big money donations would go a long way to eliminating or lessening that kind of influence and this kind of behavior.



It's not cronyism. It's the selling of top secret intelligence.


You keep saying that even though you have no idea whether he did anything improper with any intelligence gleaned. Its cronyism plain and simple. The guy used his money to buy into the position. But, I'm pretty sure he was vetted by the proper government organizations before they let him in on a meeting. Is there any evidence that anything he may have learned was given or sold to parties that should not be receiving that information ? There doesn't appear to be any in your link.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
I like how whenever someone dares question Her Highness Hillary, the Hillary apologists are instructed to bensmith any troubling incidents by conflating them Vince Foster's suicide.

Good job, you! Hillary appreciates your apologia. However, she'd still walk over your corpse to accept a donation from the terrorist who threw you off a roof.


Drew, I'm not a Hillary apologist. I think what she did in the OP was terrible. I don't think it legally qualifies as treason, but America would be a better place if it was a criminal act. I'd love to see reforms tackle the way people got appointed. (I think you could do that w/ campaign finance reform, and you'd prefer it to happen by having all the people receiving kickbacks be vetted/policed by an outside process -- if I'm reading you correctly.)

I take large pedantic issues with using the term conditioning incorrectly.

As people say above, she didn't sell secrets to a target -- she selled classified status to a target. That's legal. It's complete bullshit cronyism, but it's sadly legal.
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Kaitlyn Smith
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galad2003 wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
^ Demsplaining.

Once again, proof that there is nothing a Democrat can do that their sycophants won't attempt to explain away by pointing fingers at Republicans.



Demsplaining my new favorite word.


I also love how they always go to the "But he did it too!" defense.
I haven't noticed that much defense. I've noticed a lot more offense - such as "racist" for not agreeing with Obama, "sexist" for not agreeing with Hillary (funny, I've never heard anyone called a racist for not agreeing with Ben Carson or sexist for not agreeing with Carly.)
 
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jonb wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Sure it's the big money donors that are the issue. Curtail their right to donate huge sums of money and the problem would likely decrease.


Why must we solve the problem of corrupt politicians by punishing free citizens who wish to exercise their rights?



Free citizens can exercise their right to donate. Just set a cap so that everyone gets to donate up to a certain maximum. A maximum that is reasonably low enough that it's not going to unduly influence a candidate access in the same way donating millions would. It's really not rocket science. It could easily be done.
And how are you going to get George Soros to respect the cap?
 
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Given the vast number of fake Clinton scandals, I don't get worked up by any story that hasn't had time to be vetted by other news organizations.
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