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Subject: [WIP] - Daydream Dungeon - 2016 Solitaire PnP Contest - Components Available rss

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Daydream Dungeon

Imagine yourself in a hazy dungeon. The air is heavy and your pack is heavier. You haven’t seen the sunlight in ages and there are monsters lurking around every corner. Do you have what it takes to survive the Daydream Dungeon and make it out alive? Daydream Dungeon is a solitaire paper and pencil adventure inspired by classic roguelike games. Your objective is to make your way to the exit while fighting stronger monsters, gaining experience, and acquiring more powerful weapons and armor. Should you perish – you must start your adventure anew.



Game Design: Robin Gibson and R4D6
# of Players: 1
Playing Time: 15-30 Minutes
Ages 13 and up
Components: 1 Page & Pencil
Rules: v0.14
Components: v0.14
Cover: v0.14

Revision History
Rules: v0.1
PNP: v0.1

Categories
Best Original Artwork
Best Graphic Design
Most Innovative Mechanic
Best Game Playable on an Airline Seat Tray
Best Rule Book
Best Easy to Build Game
Best grayscale/low ink printing
Best Dungeon Crawl
Best Push Your Luck/Survival

We would also like volunteers to be assigned to our game if necessary.

2016 Solitaire Print and Play Contest
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Re: [WIP] - Rogue One - 2016 Solitaire PnP Contest - Components Available
Here is the latest design.



Please feel free to offer any suggestions or feedback - it is always appreciated! Thanks for taking a look!
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Chris Alton
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Re: [WIP] - Rogue One - 2016 Solitaire PnP Contest - Components Available
Awesome! I love rogue like games. Looking forward to this one
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Chad Russell
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Re: [WIP] - Rogue One - 2016 Solitaire PnP Contest - Components Available
Love your single player games so I will give this a try. Looks like I will be testing more games than last year, so many great projects!

Can the game be played without the bost monster idea? Good luck once again.
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Thanks Chris and Chad!

Yes - the boss monster was just an idea and didn't make it into this version. It can be ignored when playing for now!

Despite some of the inherent randomness in a design like this, we tried to stay true to the classic roguelike genre with features like random encounters and loot, permadeath, passage of time, hack and slash gameplay, bubbly potions, and more!

I even learned that early rougelikes were developed to be played on a text-based user interface. For example, the character would be represented by "@" which stood for "where you're at" and dragons would be represented by a "D". They even used different colors to represent different creature types which I thought was pretty cool.
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Chris Alton
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What? I thought all rogue likes were like that!

Yes I'm that old

......
....r.
......
......
..@...

There you go, you're in a room. You see a rat
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The Painted Goblin wrote:
What? I thought all rogue likes were like that!

Yes I'm that old

......
....r.
......
......
..@...

There you go, you're in a room. You see a rat

That's how I still play Angband, Zangband, and Ancient Domains of Mystery!
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Chris Alton
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Ahhh ADoM, the best of the lot.
Sorry, we're derailing your thread R4D6.

Carry on
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We also wanted to share some of the development work we've put in to illustrate how we arrived at our current design.

Here is one of the earliest versions - where it all started.



More early versions - we where considering a steampunk theme at this point.





Some early playtests





An idea to have different paths with varying length and difficulty.





We also discussed having a card version with more modularity and mini bosses.





We went through many versions and iterations to arrive at the current form. We decided to stick with the paper and pencil format while making some changes along the way!
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Chris Alton
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Wow! Some great insight there into the design process.
It's amazing sometimes just how many ideas that seem great at the time end up in the rubbish bin
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It's looking good (though I do quite like the look of the card based idea you posted)

I've printed it out and had a quick try (only to the end of the first level). I love the basic layout: things generally feel like they are in a good place, and it's nice to just record quantities right in the tables.

I have a few questions and points:

1 - It would be good to note in the components an optional dice

2 - It may be good to mention that each square on the map is a 'room' (rooms and levels can get a bit confusing).

3 - I couldn't quite understand the part in 'update map'. I think it means that you start in the room marked @.

4 - Are the starting values 30 for both heath and time?

5 - When surveying rooms, it's only orthogonal, right, not diagonals.

6 - Do you need to be in the same room to attack? I imagine you do for melee, but I'm not sure for ranged attacks.

7 - With attacking, the whole battle takes place in one turn, with no loss of time between attacks, right? I attack and only lose health if I miss (melee) and with ranged I can just keep attacking until I run out of arrows without ever losing health? If this is the case, I can't see why I would ever drop the sling.

8 - The loot results for 5 and 6 (treasure and potions) are different between the rules and the sheet


Anyways, good game, and I look forward to watching it develop.
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Douglas - thanks for giving this a try and for the feedback and questions! It is very much appreciated.

Quote:
1 - It would be good to note in the components an optional dice

2 - It may be good to mention that each square on the map is a 'room' (rooms and levels can get a bit confusing).

3 - I couldn't quite understand the part in 'update map'. I think it means that you start in the room marked @.


Agreed. Will update and clarify in the rulebook.

Quote:
4 - Are the starting values 30 for both heath and time?


Just for time. Your maximum health is determined by your endurance stat.

Quote:
5 - When surveying rooms, it's only orthogonal, right, not diagonals.


Correct.

Quote:
6 - Do you need to be in the same room to attack? I imagine you do for melee, but I'm not sure for ranged attacks.


Yes. Currently you need to be in the same room to make both melee and ranged attacks. We had considered allowing ranged attacks from a distance but they already seemed fairly strong compared to melee.

Quote:
7 - With attacking, the whole battle takes place in one turn, with no loss of time between attacks, right? I attack and only lose health if I miss (melee) and with ranged I can just keep attacking until I run out of arrows without ever losing health? If this is the case, I can't see why I would ever drop the sling.


That is correct. However, some monsters can't be hit by ranged attacks and some deal damage on missed ranged attacks as well. We wanted to encourage a variety of options and decisions so you didn't just use the same move every encounter. This has been a bit challenging though. We are certainly open to new ideas and suggestions.

Quote:
8 - The loot results for 5 and 6 (treasure and potions) are different between the rules and the sheet


Noted. Will correct this as well.

Thank you again for your help and time here.
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vialick wrote:
It's looking good (though I do quite like the look of the card based idea you posted)

I've printed it out and had a quick try (only to the end of the first level). I love the basic layout: things generally feel like they are in a good place, and it's nice to just record quantities right in the tables.

Anyways, good game, and I look forward to watching it develop.


And thanks! Robin has done a terrific job with the graphic design again.

Robin Gibson
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I think the card based idea looked great too! It did feel like it would decrease the amount of decisions to make a bit though. It's something we might come back to in the future.
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Chris Hansen
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This is looking terrific! Welcome to the contest!
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Helen Adams
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Just printed this one out for a long day of flying coming up this weekend. Looking forward to trying it out!
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Desmond Meraz
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Beautifully compact ... One page, a pencil and a d6, you can count me in!
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Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement. We have received some additional feedback and questions and I wanted to include a portion of that here in case anyone has similar questions. There are definitely some areas that could use improvement.

Quote:
In the gallery I noticed some sheets have the components printed on a half page with notes written on the other half of the page. Do I need to keep space for notes or can the component take up the whole page?


The components should take up the full page - I used half to just write down notes while playtesting. We should convert it to a pdf as well.

Quote:
so is the idea that you can create multiple pages each with different dungeons? Or the one dungeon has enough randomness for replayability?


It's just one dungeon right now but that's a good idea! We would like to develop a strong system and set of mechanics so you could do that with different themes and make new dungeons easily. It would also be cool to allow a character to progress through different maps and continue to get stronger over time.

Quote:
I kind of am in love with this. It's super simple and intuitive. Don't even have to look at the rules and it all makes sense. Are you planning on doing much more with the system?

Cause... I wants it.

Seriously though, what I would want would be making several different player sheets like this, making them class based, and then making it group based. Functionally still the same. Then providing like 10 different dungeon layouts in a book.


Quote:
What software are you using to create these sheets? They look really good. I'd love to give it a shot and share some thoughts with you...but it looks great!


Thanks! I wish I could take credit for it but Robin does the art and graphic design. I believe he uses Inkscape for projects like this. I've tried playing around with Photoshop and Illustrator too but usually just end up using graph paper or google drawings to share ideas.

Quote:
Haha, this looks awesome. I'll playtest this when I get the chance and give feedback. A shame that you renamed "Humors", though. I thought that added some nice (if not slightly obscure) flavor.


Thanks! My partner added that reference and I might have been the one to remove it as it flew over my head apparently. Can you fill me in on that? We'll have to change it back!

Quote:
Lots of fun, takes me back. Played a quick game before dying to a Harpy, couple of things that came up for clarification (ignore if I just didn't see them):

1. The poison potion: says dmg to everything in room, but does this explicitly mean the PC also?
2. Rolled a door, opened door with a successful lockpick, rolled again for whats in the room beyond the door, rolled a 1 again (door). What do?
3. When sneaking successfully, should you roll for whats in the next room before going there, or roll afterwards? What if you get a door?

I think I would have liked some tick-boxes next to potions, spells, keys, etc. Can mark when you get them, and black out when you use them.


Thank you so much for giving it a try! Appreciate the questions as well.

1. Yes - the poison is intended to damage the enemies as well. Will clarify in the rules.
2. When that happens - I usually just roll again. Will clarify in the rules.
3. I've rolled afterwards. If it's another door - I roll again. I wonder if there is a better solution for this.

That's a great idea for the potions and stuff. We thought about doing that for time as well and it seems to make sense.

Quote:
How does the randomizer work?


Basically, you use the Randomizer instead of 1d6, by closing your eyes, and bringing down the pencil, like in the old Lone Wolf books.

Quote:
Just played it. Love this style of game! Quick and simple but potentially deep. Here's the things that came up in my play through. It's a little scattered because I took notes as things happened to me.

1. Ranged Attacking. What happens when you miss a Ranged Attack with the sling? Rules don't say. I presumed you should lose a time mark, so that's what I did.

2. The Basilisk says you "Can't Disengage" but the rules don't say anything about disengaging. I think I should like to disengage as I lost to an angry Arachnoid! Also the Orc says "Ignore Armof."

3. Loot. I like the loot system - especially the potions. Not knowing what they do till after you use one is brilliant. I like the loot, but I made it through 14 rooms and into Level 3 and I wasn't able to get a single equipment upgrade. I propose making every chest have one coin, and then roll for what else is in it (could be a second coin.) Treasure chests are supposed to be a big deal!

4. Combat. Combat leaves a little to be desired. And the different monsters at each level are pretty much just the same thing with more HP. There could easily be some interesting things, like if the lvl 2 snake charges the room you're currently in and you have to fight. Then if you beat him then his room is just open. Or a Gargoyle that gives you +1 to sneak, but he's a booger to fight. So he entices you to sneak by, but if you have to fight him then it's tough. A little brainstorming could bring a lot to the variety to the enemies.

I have tons more enemy ideas, but I won't bore you with them. I understand you want to keep it simple, but as long as you could explain how each enemy works in the same line on the sheet, I think it wouldn't add too much complexity.

I could ramble for a while so I'll try to wrap it up. I also thought of Status Ailments (Poison, Slowness) Spell Variety because I would love to feel like a Wizard was a class (if you added ailments especially) and then allow Coins to purchase one spell slot, and of course a few different Dungeon layouts would be cool.

My final thoughts - I'd like to hear those rules clarifications, and then I'm going to start playing "Advanced" with better mobs, more gear, and better spells. I'll keep you updated as to how it goes.

EDIT : I just went back through your original designs. Those cards look really good, and the bosses and loot on those is great too. I feel like I'm going to steal a lot of that information, but you should keep that look and feel for your current design. It looks great!


Thank you so much for testing out the game! Your feedback and suggestions are very much appreciated.

1. The ranged attack mechanic and sling are going to need some adjustments I believe. It's a little too powerful right now - no real penalty for missing except losing an arrow which the sling doesn't require. Not sure if we should incorporate time into combat but I agree that it needs work.

2. Not being able to disengage is basically a way of saying that you have to continue fighting until you or the enemy perish. You can't sneak away or move to another room. We will try to clarify this. Gotta watch out for those big spiders and the orcs need to work on their spelling too!

3. Thanks for pointing this out. Someone else mentioned this as well and this is another great idea to address it. It was 1 roll/level but I think the chests or loot from monsters/sneaking needs to be increased - or the coins do anyways. I'm going to play around with a couple ideas including yours.

4. I agree that combat leaves something to be desired. You're not boring us at all and we would love to hear some more of your ideas. Even the character items are a little vanilla at this point and could use some work. We will have to work on this.

I agree that adding classes, status effects, and different layouts would be great. We really wanted to make sure the base was solid before we started adding things on. Based on some of the great feedback we've received - it looks we have some areas that need attention.

Quote:
Just tried your game. I'm interested in this because I've been tinkering with something similar.

Overall, it was pretty fun! I liked the time and dungeon generation mechanic. That worked well. I also feel like the earn money and buy equipment thing has a lot of potential to work well. And the potion tracking mechanic is really inspired.

Here are some of my suggestions and observations:

1. I personally liked the visual design of that first draft more than your current draft - it looked cleaner and would require less ink to print. I think I'd also prefer the portrait alignment.

2. I don't feel like the randomizer is a necessary thing to have on the page. It takes up a lot of space and is pretty heavy visually as well. You could always provide a printable randomizer sheet for those who need it (especially since you'd only need one randomizer compared to multiple pages for the dungeon/character sheets).

3. Character creation is unclear. It says you can can allocate points, but it's not clear what that means. You have one box filled in, and little numbers above the tracks, which kind of implies that this allocation is more than just "3 points means strength is 3", which I'm not sure is what you mean.

4. Arbitrary numbers are boring. Why not try an approach that lets players add a little character. I.e., a warrior gets 4 strength and 3 dex, a rogue gets 3 strength and 4 dex, etc. Another approach might be to have different sheets for different character types, which have different equipment lists and spells available. Or even better, make a web app that randomizes pages with different character types, boss monsters at the exit, equipment lists, treasures, etc.

5. The weapon system is a little broken. As written, all but three of the monsters are trivially defeatable with only the sling. You don't take damage if you opt for a ranged attack, and you can perform an unlimited number of attacks with the sling. I changed it so that the first time you miss with a ranged attack, you're in melee combat, which seemed to work really well. It still lets ranged attacks be powerful, but caps how much you can use them.

6. I played twice, and never really felt able to buy any equipment. One game I played, I ended the game with 25 arrows and didn't roll enough gold to actually buy a bow to shoot them with until I was one room away from the exit. That was frustrating from a mechanical perspective, but also, "really, more arrows?" is not a great loot feeling. What if you made it so that 1-3 adds coins, and you can buy keys and arrows for 1 coin each? Also, maybe you can turn in treasures for 2 gold.

I don't mean the above to rip on your game - I actually really enjoyed it! The above are just a few things I think could be tweaked to make it even stronger. Good luck with the game!


Thank you for your honest feedback! That's the best kind and really helps improve a game. Really appreciate your time and suggestions.

1. I agree that a cleaner / less ink required version would be much better. We will try to fix this in the next go. The randomizer could get removed as well - especially if we need more space.

2. I agree that the character creation could be improved as well. Basically for each point you add to a stat, you just fill in a box. The little numbers above indicate the numbers you need to roll (less than or equal to) when making a skill check. This could be clarified in the rules and possibly on the sheet as well.

3. I agree here as well! There is a lot of different directions we could go in regarding characters, stats, abilities, and available items. At the very least, I'd like to come up with a couple presets like you mentioned. A web app would be very cool as well!

4. That's a great idea for ranged combat. I think there are certainly a lot of improvements we could make around this. We were struggling to come up with different ways to incorporate different actions/attacks against the enemies. Perhaps we should change the ability of the sling or just start with a melee weapon. I need to test out some of these ideas and see what works best.

5. That's a good point. I think at one point in time we had it so that after every enemy you killed, you gained 1 coin/level + 1 loot roll. That might have been too much though. I do like this idea a lot - getting more coins and having the ability to buy keys/arrows and sell treasure. The treasure loot was the last item we added to the game and it felt a little tacked on.

Thanks again for your help and ideas! It is very much helpful and we are certainly going to make some changes going forward.
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As we have been tinkering with new ideas, reviewing the feedback, and addressing certain areas, Robin has been working on a new version. This certainly isn't ready yet but we just wanted to share our progress with anyone who happens to be following along.

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More playtesting. Made a couple quick modifications to address some areas that haven't been working as well.

1. Each enemy drops 1 coin AND 1 loot roll. Chests drop 1 coin AND 1 loot roll per level.

2. Removed the Sling's ability. Missed ranged attacks cause you to lose 1 time (missed melee attacks cause you to lose health as determined by the enemy's damage).

3. Didn't start with any items or coins but it might not be a bad idea to start with a few coins, arrows, and a key or two. Considering a few per-made classes to avoid min/maxing builds.

4. I didn't do +1 xp for successful lock picks or sneaks as it felt like I was already gaining a lot of xp after every win - maybe too much. This could be a disadvantage for a sneaky thief character though. I thought about just giving an xp bonus each time you crossed over to a new level instead - but haven't tried that yet.

5. It would be nice to make the enemy abilities more thematic while encouraging different play styles as well.



Karsa Orlong, a Teblor Barbarian, ventured into the dungeon for glory and to destroy all the lesser enemies harassing his kin. Starting with 6 Strength and 6 Endurance points, Karsa much prefers hand to hand combat and destroying all those who get in his way.

Karsa got lucky by finding a few treasure chests early in the first level and managed to open them despite having overly large hands and dismal dexterity abilities. After defeating a skeleton, goblin, and over-sized rat, Karsa had enough coin to purchase a mace (2 damage) and iron armor (-2 damage from enemies).

After entering the 2nd level, Karsa encountered a few harpies who happened to ignore his melee attacks. However, he learned to improve his sneak and lock picking skills and was able to sneak past a couple. He then encountered an orc and giant snake, slaughtering both. Despite taking a few cuts and slashes, Karsa ventured onwards.

Running into the old witch Samar Dev, Karsa picked up a handful of potions to aid in his adventure. After arriving in the 3rd level, Karsa immediately became surrounded by 3 ruthless ogres. Thinking things through has never been his forte and Karsa downed a blue potion hoping to restore his health. Unfortunately for both Karsa and the ogre, the blue potion was a strength 6 poison, killing both and ending the conqueror's quest early...
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todd sanders
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looking good
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dumarest123 wrote:
looking good


Thanks Todd!



I also put together a quick excel version if anyone wants to test it out that way. ninja

Edit: Excel File v01
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A little more progress on the latest revision. Haven't tested this one out a whole lot yet. Needs some more work and balance.

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I like the addition of different rooms and the dungeon layout in particular. It will add more flavor to the adventure!
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Hey, R4. Got in a play this week using V01 components. I see you have already made quite a few additions and changes based on your latest post, so I won't get too wordy on my comments as most may not be valid any longer.

Had fun! So that's always a good thing. I didn't get too far. I spent too much time in Level 1 trying to avoid Skeletons rather than just moving forward. I made it two rooms into Level 2 when I met up with a Harpy. Got stuck there. Had several rolls for combat and sneak but failed them all, until I was finally dead. I didn't get any new weapons. No coins. I found one key, five arrows (in a single chest), and two spells. Ended with 13 Time used up.

Some quick questions/comments:

1. Is there only one Action per Sequence of Play (i.e. one round)?

2. When in a room with a Monster, can I mix and match rolls for Fight and Sneak? So, I first move into a room with a Monster. I Sneak, but fail. I'm forced to roll a Fight. I hit/miss. Can I then roll a Sneak again? Or am I locked into Fight until one of us dies?

3. I see some talk about the Sling above. Another option is to just start with 5 (or 6 or whatever) stones for the Sling. Once they are gone, the weapon is useless.

4. On a successful Sneak you immediately move into a room, but you may not have already rolled for Check your Surroundings. Either that is an empty room or you must then roll immediately for what you find?

5. After a successful Sneak, you may roll for Pickpocket. If you succeed, you roll for loot. What happens if you fail? Nothing? If so, then why is it an option to Pickpocket? You will always want to. Or is there a penalty?

6. Finally, the only thing I find a bit clunky is the Time. Yes, it’s simple enough to know to lose one time with each move into a new room, but when it comes to Actions that cause time, it doesn’t feel consistent or smooth. Some actions cause a loss of time. Some don’t. Some do only on a fail. Some do only on a Success. Why not just get rid of the Time element and use the number of rooms visited as a judgement of success? In other words, at the end, just count up the number of rooms you entered; if 30 or less, score +10, 31 to 35 = +5, anything 36 and more you lose 5 points. Or something like that. It would take away remembering when you lose time and not, as well as having one less tracker to worry about on the player page.

7. That made me think of another question…can you re-enter a room?

Okay, that’s enough. As I said, you already made a bunch of changes, so maybe this post isn’t really necessary. In either case, I look forward to playing the next version. Good work so far!

Mo
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Hi Mo! Thanks for giving it a try!

The last time I played, I made the following changes which might help.

1. Each enemy drops 1 coin AND 1 loot roll. Chests drop 1 coin AND 1 loot roll per level.

2. Removed the Sling's ability. Missed ranged attacks cause you to lose 1 time (missed melee attacks cause you to lose health as determined by the enemy's damage).

3. Didn't start with any items or coins but it might not be a bad idea to start with a few coins, arrows, and a key or two.


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1. Is there only one Action per Sequence of Play (i.e. one round)?


I had trouble wording this in the rules. Basically, you check your surroundings, move (optionally), and take any actions. I'm not sure if that clarifies but the turn/round order isn't very structured or linear.

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2. When in a room with a Monster, can I mix and match rolls for Fight and Sneak? So, I first move into a room with a Monster. I Sneak, but fail. I'm forced to roll a Fight. I hit/miss. Can I then roll a Sneak again? Or am I locked into Fight until one of us dies?


I need to clarify in the next update. Thanks. So you can mix and match. If you fail a sneak, you get hit by the monster. You could then try to sneak again or fight.

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3. I see some talk about the Sling above. Another option is to just start with 5 (or 6 or whatever) stones for the Sling. Once they are gone, the weapon is useless.


That's an interesting idea. I've just been playing without that ability.

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4. On a successful Sneak you immediately move into a room, but you may not have already rolled for Check your Surroundings. Either that is an empty room or you must then roll immediately for what you find?


Right. So check your surroundings - optional movement - take an action. You are correct that you would roll immediately after for what you find. I've been rerolling locked doors but I wonder if there is a better solution to this.

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5. After a successful Sneak, you may roll for Pickpocket. If you succeed, you roll for loot. What happens if you fail? Nothing? If so, then why is it an option to Pickpocket? You will always want to. Or is there a penalty?


If you fail a pickpocket, you treat it as a failing a sneak - so you would get hit by the monster.

I don't think we've been giving +1 xp for successful lock picks or sneaks as I felt like I was already gaining a lot of xp after every combat win - maybe too much. This could be a disadvantage for a sneaky thief character though. I thought about just giving an xp bonus each time you crossed over to a new level instead - but haven't tried that yet.

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6. Finally, the only thing I find a bit clunky is the Time. Yes, it’s simple enough to know to lose one time with each move into a new room, but when it comes to Actions that cause time, it doesn’t feel consistent or smooth. Some actions cause a loss of time. Some don’t. Some do only on a fail. Some do only on a Success. Why not just get rid of the Time element and use the number of rooms visited as a judgement of success? In other words, at the end, just count up the number of rooms you entered; if 30 or less, score +10, 31 to 35 = +5, anything 36 and more you lose 5 points. Or something like that. It would take away remembering when you lose time and not, as well as having one less tracker to worry about on the player page.


I agree with you. It feels like a bit too much record keeping too. That is definitely an idea worth considering.

We did want to stay true to the roguelike genre by including "stamina decay". We used a clock here instead of food to impose some type of deadline or limitation on how much the player can explore in an attempt to create a bit more tension in the game.

I think you only lose time if you move into a new room, fail a lockpick, or more recently, fail a ranged attack.

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7. That made me think of another question…can you re-enter a room?


Yes. If you leave the room without killing the monster, its health will reset.

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so maybe this post isn’t really necessary


It is very much appreciated and helpful. Thank you again for your time and feedback. thumbsup
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