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Subject: Attaching Totems with Owl's Insight rss

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Questions about using Owl's Insight to attach a totem to a location as it has similar wording to General Store and other cards that supersede the normal rules.

Here's the text on Owl's Insight:

OWL'S INSIGHT
Cheatin' Resolution Spirit 5, Boot: Attach any number of goods or spells from your play hand (as shoppin') reducing the cost of each by 1. Draw cards until your hand is at its maximum size

1. Can I use Owl's Insight to attach a totem to a location I don't control?

2. Do I need an unbooted Shaman present at the location I attach a totem to using Owl's Insight?

3. Could I attach a totem to the town square through this effect?

Thanks for your help!
 
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Eric Jome
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yipe wrote:
1. Can I use Owl's Insight to attach a totem to a location I don't control?


In my opinion, no. You could use it to attach to one you do control.

Quote:
2. Do I need an unbooted Shaman present at the location I attach a totem to using Owl's Insight?


Yes. Generally speaking, cards only subvert conditions they active state; you have to pay all costs and meet all conditions not specifically bypassed.

Quote:
3. Could I attach a totem to the town square through this effect.


Not if you don't control it. By default no one controls town square.
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Interesting. The General Store allows you to attach goods to dudes in locations you don't control, including Town Square, and even if they're booted. Why doesn't Owl's Insight work in the same way?
 
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So it goes.
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I'm pretty sure you could attach to a location you don't control because General Store lets you invent gadgets in locations you don't control. You did still need to boot a MS and pass the skill check though so I'd assume you would still need an unbooted shaman at the location. I couldn't find a ruling on A.E.G.s forums, but their search function isn't the greatest.
 
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A Brave New Geek
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I love this game!
 
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I searched the official rules forum but nothing about Owl's Insight specifically answered my questions. I would've posted my questions there but they seem to be having a problem with spam at the moment.
 
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soulblight
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yipe wrote:
1. Can I use Owl's Insight to attach a totem to a location I don't control?

no
Quote:
2. Do I need an unbooted Shaman present at the location I attach a totem to using Owl's Insight?

yes
Quote:
3. Could I attach a totem to the town square through this effect?

no

Unfortunately you cannot attach Totems using a card effect unless you have an unbooted shaman at a location you control. Totems have explicit rules that define requirements to attach a Totem, and these rules are entirely separate from the Shoppin' rules that GS and OI override.
From their text as written, Owl's Insight and General Store do not override the Totem rules.

They allow you to attach goods and spirits (that are NOT totems) in a location you do not control, and even to a booted dude.
This is because the rulebook explicitly states that attaching a goods or a spell using a card effect allows you to ignore these restrictions as part of the Shippin' rules (ie, when it says as shoppin'). The Totem rules are separate from the Shoppin' rules, and unless the card says so the Totem rules are not overridden.
There was the same problem with Gadgets (that is, you needed an unbooted MS in a location you control to attach a gadget with a card effect) until they reworded the Gadget rules on May 1st.

It's also been ruled that since the rulebook specifies that when a dude attaches a goods or spell using a card effect, he can do so when booted and/or in an uncontrolled location.
But dudes do not attach Totems (they attach to deeds) so attaching a spell through a card effect doesn't apply in this case.

Here's some threads from the rules forum:

http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=375&t=114694&p=...
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=375&t=114780&p=...
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=375&t=114966&p=...
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=375&t=116383&p=...
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=375&t=116457&p=...
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=375&t=115460&p=...
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Thanks for the clarification.

It's pretty convoluted but I understand it now. I was focusing on "attach" as the key word here, and not taking the "(as shoppin')" phrase into consideration.

 
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soulblight
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Technically when you play a Totem you are still Shoppin,' so this part of the composite rules applies:

Shoppin' wrote:
Some card effects let you bring another card into play. When using one of these effects, the new card enters play following these same rules, depending on its type. The costs of the new card must still be paid, so if you can’t pay those costs, you can’t attempt to bring it into play. If that new card is a goods or spell, a dude can attach it even when booted and/or in a location you don’t control. Dudes still can’t take anything that they aren’t allowed to carry.


But since the card isn't attaching to a dude, the "dude can attach it even when booted and/or in a location you don’t control" bit doesn't apply, but the Totem rules still do.

 
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