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Subject: Missile movement rss

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Cameron Fisher
Australia
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HI all,

I was wondering - when do the missiles move? At the beginning of the impulse before the players move?

Thanks.
 
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Keith Anderson
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Nice catch. I don't see where this is actually stated in the rules. However in the play book's advanced play example the missiles are moved during the Talon players turns (playbook p31 for one example). I guess I glossed over this omission during my rules reading since I tend to think of the missiles as another object under a player's control like ships and controlled them as such.
 
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Bob
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Missiles move like any other ship and have a speed of 6 with Turn Radius of 0. You can choose to move them at any point during the Movement step of your Turn like you would with any other ship. We imply this in Rulebook 13.4 and other places but I'll add a clarification.
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Cameron Fisher
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Thanks for your replies gentlemen.
I think I'm going to make a house rule here: Missiles move at the beginning of each impulse, irrespective of who has the initiative.

The way I see it, once launched the missiles are independent in terms of movement. The don't rely on initiative any more, however they can't be retargeted until the Talon player's move.
Ill try it both ways and see how it goes.
 
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Niko
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jupiter6 wrote:
Thanks for your replies gentlemen.
I think I'm going to make a house rule here: Missiles move at the beginning of each impulse, irrespective of who has the initiative.

The way I see it, once launched the missiles are independent in terms of movement. The don't rely on initiative any more, however they can't be retargeted until the Talon player's move.
Ill try it both ways and see how it goes.
I'd love to hear the results of this! By RAW missiles make for very interesting choices regarding initiative changes; E.g. An initiative change might delay missile impact by one round and allow a ship to fire one more time, but some other ships will end up in a worse position.
The alternative gets rid of those choices, it will be interesting to hear if it gains something else instead.
 
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jupiter6 wrote:
Thanks for your replies gentlemen.
I think I'm going to make a house rule here: Missiles move at the beginning of each impulse, irrespective of who has the initiative.



    That could make a big difference in tactics. You sure you don't want to leave them in the Talon player's turn?
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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I'm all for house rules, as many of you know, but I guess my question in this case would be why? There are some interesting decisions with them moving in the Talon turn, what is the problem that is motivating you to change it?
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David desJardins
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Jim Krohn wrote:
I'm all for house rules, as many of you know, but I guess my question in this case would be why? There are some interesting decisions with them moving in the Talon turn, what is the problem that is motivating you to change it?


I agree that the tactical implications of changing initiative are at the core of the game. I do wonder, Jim, if you have a backstory to explain it. It's a little hard to understand why my missile is chasing you and if enough of my ships bid "change initiative" then the missile hits you sooner.
 
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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I was very much set on having an initiative system in the game. Primarily because I wanted to have NOTHING be simultaneous. I wanted that for a few reasons:

1. I wanted to help the solitaire players.
2. I didn't want this awkward, okay we have to declare if we are firing our weapons simultaneously, so let's write it down. That is so fiddly and annoying.
3. The idea of weapons firing simultaneously often, seemed "unrealistic".

The backstory for the initiative system is (mostly) electronic warfare. The more power you put into it, the more able you are to blind or slow their sensors or speed up yours so that you can react better.

So, one plausible explanation is not that the missiles hit sooner, but that the target was not able to react in time.
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Or that you momentarily scrambled the missile's tracking system.

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Cameron Fisher
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To be honest, I didn't think this would be a big deal.
Why? There isn't any in depth reason I'm afraid. When I was first playing Talon I couldn't remember when the missiles were supposed to move. The most natural thing to me seemed to be that they were fire and forget (apart from retargeting), therefore once fired were independent of initiative. That seemed logical to me so that's what I did, and have done. That's it.
 
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David desJardins
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jupiter6 wrote:
The most natural thing to me seemed to be that they were fire and forget (apart from retargeting), therefore once fired were independent of initiative.


You often have choices about HOW to move your missiles even after you launch them, they are definitely not "fire and forget".

As Jim says, manipulating the initiative creates many additional tactics involving missiles (for both players). Changing the initiative can help you influence whether a missile hits your down shield or another shield, for example. Or, if you have two groups of missiles closing on you, whether they both hit the same shield. "I couldn't remember when the missiles were supposed to move" seems a weak reason to take away all of this depth.
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Cameron Fisher
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DaviddesJ wrote:
"I couldn't remember when the missiles were supposed to move" seems a weak reason to take away all of this depth.

Lol.

Thanks for the feedback mate. Sorry my shallow thinking offended you. Just as well we'll never play in real life eh?
 
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David desJardins
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jupiter6 wrote:
Sorry my shallow thinking offended you.


You seem to be the only one taking offense.
 
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