Trey Chambers
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My friend had this to say, which I thought was quite enlightening:

"In response to every pro-gun post I've seen accusing the left of trying to exploit this tragedy to abridge your freedom by taking away your guns; I would like to counterpoint that in the wake of 9/11 the conservatives stole freedom and replaced it with an illusion of safety. We now have the ineffective TSA, the blundering DOHS, illegal mass surveillance, and a war profiteering and civil rights abridging war on terror. So don't go get high and mighty about how the libtards are trying to exploit an emotional time to take your guns away, esp when the Right is using the butchery of people they despise as a platform to further Islamophobia to continue to prop up the faulty but profitable legacy of fear that is now the hallmark of this proud nation."

It really hit home. Conservatives certainly think it's totally fine to exploit tragedy and terrorism to take away freedoms and invade privacy, but not to even consider making some small changes to gun policy.

I'm just sick as fuck of the kneejerk reaction that whenever you mention ANY change to gun policy, like maybe we shouldn't allow people under FBI suspicion to waltz into a store and buy a fucking assault rifle, that that means "THEY'RE COMING FOR YOUR GUNS!"

You know the Democrats controlled Congress AND the Presidency during 2008-2010. Did the Blackhawk helicopters swarm your compound coming for your guns? No? Right, of course not, now shut the fuck and let's talk about some SMALL CHANGES that could SAVE LIVES and don't infringe on the right to own a gun as a whole.
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bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1. Blaming it and related rights encroachment issues on Conservatives is pretty disingenuous. The stripping of rights was about as bipartisan as anything we've ever gotten done in this country.

We know that Democrats these days are disingenuous about the "FBI investigation" issue. You've nominated someone for President who is literally under FBI investigation right now. This is just another "don't let a crisis go to waste" moment by Democrats looking to take away our Constitutional right to bear arms.


Someone under investigation by the FBI who said that someone under investigation by the FBI shouldnt be allowed to buy a gun.
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Jon Badolato
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To the gun nutters ANY proposal is a massive attempt to take away their rights to own a gun. The paranoia runs that deep.
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bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1. Blaming it and related rights encroachment issues on Conservatives is pretty disingenuous. The stripping of rights was about as bipartisan as anything we've ever gotten done in this country.

We know that Democrats these days are disingenuous about the "FBI investigation" issue. You've nominated someone for President who is literally under FBI investigation right now. This is just another "don't let a crisis go to waste" moment by Democrats looking to take away our Constitutional right to bear arms.
Yes, it's not like exploiting this tragedy to call for surveillance of citizens convicted of no crime.
 
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bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1. Blaming it and related rights encroachment issues on Conservatives is pretty disingenuous. The stripping of rights was about as bipartisan as anything we've ever gotten done in this country.

We know that Democrats these days are disingenuous about the "FBI investigation" issue. You've nominated someone for President who is literally under FBI investigation right now. This is just another "don't let a crisis go to waste" moment by Democrats looking to take away our Constitutional right to bear arms.


Case in point, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks, bj, for once against being the resident meathead of RSP.

Clinton's commin 4 ur gun! Better move to, idunno, Africa or something. There aren't many places with more lax gun laws than the U.S.

Good luck.
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The Patriot Act and the War on Terror is the stupidest thing bush did, and he did a lot of stupid things. I am a centrist. I am totally fine with Republicans, I supported Kasich after all for president, but there are just more idiots on the republican side. Don't know what I am talking about? Look at Mr. Paul LePage, the most entertaining governor in history.
 
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jonb wrote:
To the gun nutters ANY proposal is a massive attempt to take away their rights to own a gun. The paranoia runs that deep.

At least you don't live in an area where everyone has a gun by age 5, and their are drugs as far as the eye can see. Not good combo. What? No I don't live in the inner city. I live in rural maine for crying out loud!
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
If your first impulse after Orlando was to blame the NRA and conservatives, then you are not a serious person.


My first thought was to blame the shooter responsible. It's his evil deed. But the NRA is likely complicit in those deaths for their push to try to prevent laws that would have allowed someone like Mateen to be on a list for further review before selling him a gun.
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Drew1365 wrote:
If your first impulse after Orlando was to blame the NRA and conservatives, then you are not a serious person.


I don't think it was anyone's first impulse.

But as soon as one starts any kind of analysis, some of the root causes are pretty obvious.

People don't kill 50 people for no reason. That hatred is a seed that has been planted and watered by the anti-Islamic rhetoric from the Right, and I'm sure some of the shooter's hatred for LGBT was nurtured by the Right's rhetoric as well.

That's not even getting to the guns, to that I direct you here: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-06-13/democrats-no-...

TLDR, after the San Bernardino terrorist, Dems tried to tighten up gun laws just a tad, to prevent people exactly like the Orlando shooter from buying a fucking assault rifle. Want to take a wild guess who killed it? The ammosexuals in the Republican party, of course.
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bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.
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Geosphere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.


How many senators are there?
 
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TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.


How many senators are there?


Mary Landrieu was absent for the vote and was not counted. 98-1.

Learn some history.
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Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.


How many senators are there?


Mary Landrieu was absent for the vote and was not counted. 98-1.

Learn some history.


OOoohhhh, he was off 1 vote when it was 98-1.
Wow, THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!
IT TOTALLY WAS a RIGHT WING ONLY BILL THAT PASSED.
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TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.


How many senators are there?


Mary Landrieu was absent for the vote and was not counted. 98-1.

Learn some history.


OOoohhhh, he was off 1 vote when it was 98-1.
Wow, THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!
IT TOTALLY WAS a RIGHT WING ONLY BILL THAT PASSED.


Your response now makes it clear that you feel absolutely fine with altering numbers. You actually were OK with forcing a vote on someone who was not present. This is not surprising.
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TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.


How many senators are there?


Mary Landrieu was absent for the vote and was not counted. 98-1.

Learn some history.


OOoohhhh, he was off 1 vote when it was 98-1.
Wow, THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!
IT TOTALLY WAS a RIGHT WING ONLY BILL THAT PASSED.

VOTER FRAUD!!!!!
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Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.


How many senators are there?


Mary Landrieu was absent for the vote and was not counted. 98-1.

Learn some history.


OOoohhhh, he was off 1 vote when it was 98-1.
Wow, THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!
IT TOTALLY WAS a RIGHT WING ONLY BILL THAT PASSED.


Your response now makes it clear that you feel absolutely fine with altering numbers. You actually were OK with forcing a vote on someone who was not present. This is not surprising.


What was it? A 1% variation?
Who cares?
 
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TheDashi wrote:

What was it? A 1% variation?
Who cares?


Mary Landrieu.
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Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:

What was it? A 1% variation?
Who cares?


Mary Landrieu.


Why?
 
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TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:

What was it? A 1% variation?
Who cares?


Mary Landrieu.


Why?


Because you replaced all of the power she has with a guess.
 
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Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:

What was it? A 1% variation?
Who cares?


Mary Landrieu.


Why?


Because you replaced all of the power she has with a guess.


A 1% variation in recalling something is perfectly fine.
Who the fuck cares.
Did it change anything?
 
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TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.


How many senators are there?


Mary Landrieu was absent for the vote and was not counted. 98-1.

Learn some history.


OOoohhhh, he was off 1 vote when it was 98-1.
Wow, THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!
IT TOTALLY WAS a RIGHT WING ONLY BILL THAT PASSED.


Your response now makes it clear that you feel absolutely fine with altering numbers. You actually were OK with forcing a vote on someone who was not present. This is not surprising.


What was it? A 1% variation?
Who cares?

do you feel the same way about voter fraud? if it results in less than a 1% variation, then we should just ignore it? I don't think that's been your position in the past. what changed your stance?
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Shampoo4you wrote:
some SMALL CHANGES that could SAVE LIVES and don't infringe on the right to own a gun as a whole.


I can still remember back when the tobacco companies tried to reason with you people at first about "small changes" in the name of safety. We see how that tuned out.





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TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.


How many senators are there?


Mary Landrieu was absent for the vote and was not counted. 98-1.

Learn some history.


OOoohhhh, he was off 1 vote when it was 98-1.
Wow, THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!
IT TOTALLY WAS a RIGHT WING ONLY BILL THAT PASSED.


Your response now makes it clear that you feel absolutely fine with altering numbers. You actually were OK with forcing a vote on someone who was not present. This is not surprising.


What was it? A 1% variation?
Who cares?


Do you support Voter ID laws that are under the guise to prevent fraud which is probably a much less than a 1% variation. When in actuality these laws are meant to infringe on our right to vote.
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jmilum wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The Patriot Act passed 99-1.


That better be 98-1 or someone voted twice.


How many senators are there?


Mary Landrieu was absent for the vote and was not counted. 98-1.

Learn some history.


OOoohhhh, he was off 1 vote when it was 98-1.
Wow, THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!
IT TOTALLY WAS a RIGHT WING ONLY BILL THAT PASSED.


Your response now makes it clear that you feel absolutely fine with altering numbers. You actually were OK with forcing a vote on someone who was not present. This is not surprising.


What was it? A 1% variation?
Who cares?

do you feel the same way about voter fraud? if it results in less than a 1% variation, then we should just ignore it? I don't think that's been your position in the past. what changed your stance?


Damn, beaten by jmilum to the punch
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Paul DeStefano
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TheDashi wrote:

A 1% variation in recalling something is perfectly fine.
Who the fuck cares.
Did it change anything?


It changed the power of a representative.

In doing so, you render one person's vote moot. In this case, it does not matter (unless she intentionally abstained by staying home, in which case you are squelching that as well).

But overall, for the sake of the way American democracy runs, the vote of a single rep cannot be disregarded. It is disrespectful of the system, highly disrespectful of the individual, and contributes to a weakening of all arguments made, if you suddenly enforce an acceptable margin of error where there can be none. It was very well known at the time that one person was not there. It became the watercooler joke of the day, that maybe her vote would swing the system. The final point is, choosing to ignore even a single vote in this system invalidates it all. Otherwise votes would just be 'lost' without question. Wins would occur at 45-44, because they couldn't find the others.

Denying the existence, or in this case NON-existence of a vote is an attack against the validity of the entire system. And you can do that, but it should be done out of intention and not accidental omission, since that could clearly end up with your original intent being misconstrued, much as it may be that Mary Landrieu's intent can now be misconstrued by forcing a vote that she did not make.
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