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Darklight: Memento Mori» Forums » General

Subject: strange to see Massive Darkness having so much success compared to DMM rss

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jérémy royaux
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I wonder why people kickstart Massive Darkness. If you compare it with Darklight, i think DMM seems to have everything you find in Massive Darkness and more. The minis are great, the gameplay is a bit more evolved, you get campain play and leveling but it's still combat heavy and rather simple. The only thing i would say is that the design of DMM can be a bit "austere" compared to MD.
Are people afraid to kickstart new projets from less known designers? Are they simple unaware that DMM exists? Any other reason?
 
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Sergio Macias
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It's a CMoN KS. They could sell dog's s**t and people would eat it up.
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Skolo
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you have a lot more miniatures for that price. people love miniatures. gameplay seems not that important these days...shake
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Josh S
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Victor Mancha wrote:

It's a CMoN KS. They could sell dog's s**t and people would eat it up.
This is true. People like them some CMoN minis, I think a lot has to do with name recognition vs. relative unknowns.

Personally, I was a bit turned off by DMM's horror theme, whereas MD is more "cartoony."
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Magic Pink
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skolo wrote:
you have a lot more miniatures for that price. people love miniatures. gameplay seems not that important these days...shake


I'm backing MD because of the gameplay, not the minis. It looks really fun.

Darklight looks like a fiddly, slapdash mess.
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Loud
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@Magic Pink I have to disagree with you on this one , to me DMM looks more
the kind of game I was looking for , to me gameplay is actually something I need to love a game and they do have actually nice miniature too ... but hey the world is nice because we are all different so no hard feeling just my opinion ...
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Simon Webster
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Magic Pink wrote:


Darklight looks like a fiddly, slapdash mess.


Huh?
Darklight looks deep and engaging compared to MD's shallow and forgettable.

Some people like more complex games. For the hard of understanding though, CMoN will always be there.
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CMON has a proven track record and they 99% certainly delivers. So the campaigns are less risky compared to the new comers like Marrow Production (Journey: Wrath of Demons), Isaac Childres (Forge War, a game before Gloomhaven) and Dark Ice Games.

People know that CMON kickstarters lure a lot of people in which defaults to a lot of miniatures. I backed Massive Darkness due to this, but cancelled early bird a few days later since the gameplay or miniature design didn't get me interested in. Darklight wins by these aspects!

If only comparing miniature count at the beginning of the campaigns, Darklight actually wins:
* CMON (69 enemy miniatures + 6 hero miniatures + 1 Kickstarter exclusive miniature) = 76 miniautres
* Darklight: Memento Mori = 77 miniatures

With a similar level of backer support CMON gets, Darklight could have potentially unlocked as many stretchgoal miniatures as Massive Darkness. Let's see how many late pledgers join allowing us to reach some more goals, though I'm quite satisfied what we unlocked during the campaign miniatures wise.
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Brian M
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I checked out DMM when it was on KS, and the preview material they had it made it look like a fan version of Warhammer Quest, with all the clutter and clunkiness. The monster cards were a veritable wall of text. Lots of warnings that it wasn't going to be a good game.
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Martin Gallo
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Name recognition is most likely the cause of the discrepancy.

If Darklight turns out to be a great and desirable game and MD stinks up the joint this could change.
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Simon Webster
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StormKnight wrote:
The monster cards were a veritable wall of text.


Oh noes! Text!
Oh, the horror...
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Greysbull
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Darklight is gonna be awesome. The gameplay video they did, although hard to understand at some points, showed me a very good game with a lot of potential.
 
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Highlord Tamburlaine
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Darklight seems like what everyone was moaning and groaning about wanting in the first place.

My only thought is people were scared off by the pound sign rather than the almighty dollar.

Plus CMON has the usual rabid fanbase.

Will probably still grab Massive Darkness, but I'm looking forward to Darklight way more.
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Vayda
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WrenHong wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
The monster cards were a veritable wall of text.


Oh noes! Text!
Oh, the horror...


You know the walls of text actually was a selling point to me. It reminded me of older games and a toss back to the original D&D and such. A nostalgic fueled old school dungeon crawl that will beat the snot out of us? Perfect.

Didn't hurt that it's terrifyingly beautiful.
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jernej peter
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Because they have a lot of miniatures and people believe they will deliver.

If this was not true, people would choose Darklight and Dungen Crusade over Massive darknes and Dark souls!
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François Mahieu
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What is DMM?
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jernej peter
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poifpoif wrote:
What is DMM?



Darklight: Memento Mori
 
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Sergio Macias
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poifpoif wrote:
What is DMM?


Dungeon Master Millennium.

You are in a thread for a game called Darklight: Memento Mori. What could DMM stand for?
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mauro pane
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Magic Pink wrote:
skolo wrote:
you have a lot more miniatures for that price. people love miniatures. gameplay seems not that important these days...shake


I'm backing MD because of the gameplay, not the minis. It looks really fun.

Darklight looks like a fiddly, slapdash mess.


There are games which can be played with a handful of rules and games which needs 50 times the amount of rules to be played, both are valid and fun in their own way but both have completely different goals in mind. Like saying that Hero Quest is a better game than Kingdom Death because the rules are less fiddly; We can't, we are talking of 2 completely different games.

-Does Massive Darkness give you the freedom to turn your spellcaster into a Heavy Armour melee warrior? Or your regular Ranged hero into a mix of magic and ranged?

-Give you 100% the choice of how you wish your character to specialize with 20 skills per class + attributes points distribution?

-Turn your game into a full RPG?

These features are neat but require a lot of "safe-net" rules to avoid breaking the game by creating something ridiculously unbalanced, that is why Darklight needs more rules which to some might seem fiddly.

If I just gave you the typical 4 rigid classes which most RPG have and an almost linear progression, I could have written the manual in 5 pages

Darklight is a hybrid between an RPG and a board game, Massive Darkness like most CMON games is a pure board game.

Lastly, just to be back on topic, the unknown shipping has played its part. Also like others here, I too believe that because DL is our first game many people might have had reservations regarding backing the "unknown". My hope is that in the future once Darklight is complete we can gain the trust of more people and continue from there
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jernej peter
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Hi Mauro,

any news when late pledge wil be available?
 
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mauro pane
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agresivc wrote:
Hi Mauro,

any news when late pledge wil be available?


Keeping my fingers crossed for this week. Not long now
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jérémy royaux
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heh i'm waiting for it too
 
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Shelby Babb
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blackshad wrote:

Are people afraid to kickstart new projets from less known designers?


Yep.

blackshad wrote:

Are they simple unaware that DMM exists?


Probably. I hadn't really heard of it before today.

blackshad wrote:

Any other reason?


CMoN has a proven track record at delivery, "giving away" tons of miniatures, and being competitively priced. MD is actually a bit less generous than previous KS they've run, but it's still pretty good.

I also suspect some people were holding off on DMM because they knew MD was around the corner and would rather back a "known".

Plus, DMM and MD are -very- different games, with MD offering a lighter and (relatively) more family friendly experience. I mean, people complaining about the complexity of MD would really freak out over DMM. (I see DMM's depth as a feature though)

Anyway, I'm hoping for a Late Pledge option on DMM.
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jérémy royaux
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late pledge is up guys
 
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Jonah Rees
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CMON have run many Kickstarter projects successfully (it's basically their whole business model now) so have much more market exposure and a much more recognised name. As a result backing MD is seen as much less risky and people know that any CMON project will hit tons of stretch goals. Personally I think they are different games in terms of gameplay and style though. DMM has a much deeper experience with MD being a re-skinned Zombicide. Whichever of those is best depends on your personal preferences.
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