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Subject: question about coming back after being behind rss

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Fnorbl Fnorblobson
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So, last week we played Cthulhu Wars for the second time (just the core game). Well, it was the second time for me and the first time for the other players. One friend played the Crawling Chaos, and after a couple of turns said that she felt she had very few gates and was so behind that she'd now have no chance anymore to win.

I said that we are all very new to this game, so that we don't know the strategies and nuances of it, and I gave her the rule book with the strategy section for the Crawling Chaos (I haven't read those either to be on an even footing with the other players).

So the question is, what is it really like? I can see lots of arguments in all kinds of directions, such as:
- Cthulhu Wars games don't take that long, so if you are behind that much you played incorrectly, so try to learn from mistakes you might have made and try better next time.
- The game is in the end also a political game, so your own game decisions are not quite as important as the political aspect, how the players treat each other.
- "If you don't have enough gates as Crawling Chaos early on, do XYZ" (insert pro player advice).

Anybody got some advice? I'd like to give her some positive advice of sorts.

Thanks.
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Arthur Petersen
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Ultimately, it depends on how far behind she is and at what point during the game .

it's going to depend on The faction she plays, but generally soeaking,you want to use your available power to go after the most easily capturable Gates. If you are behind, there is a tendency to try to go after someone who is winning. Fight that tendency, if you are behind go after literally anyone even someone who is doing worse than you, and take the most vulnerabble and easy gate to take from them. This can lead to retaliation so pick carefully. ( I say fight that tendency, because if you are really behind, someone else who is closer to the top guy is going to be fighting him anyway so there's no need for you to do it as well). However, if the most easily captured gate is controlled by the current leading player, that's great too.

But in the end, the half power rule and learning the nuances of each faction will help the next time she plays.

Also keep in mind that in this game there are plenty of times in which there's a very big swing between who is perceived as first and who is not. There are big power swings and what happens in one round can be very very different from the next round. You have to look at the aggregate, how much power they have this round plus how many Doom and elder tokens, plus what their board presence and current capabilities are. These things are all very fluid in CW.

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FullContactGEEK
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OMG...last week we had a 4 player game with GC, YS, BG and Opener. I was GC and this was our third time playing with Opener and we found him dangerous. So, I was in a position to hammer on him and I did so to the point where he had zero cultists and zero gates. And in the next turn he came back strong and nearly won.

I think this game takes a few plays with each faction to get a sense of which one suits your play style. But even then, every play gives you a sense of what the options are no matter which faction you play, so you can stay competitive. I say give it a few more plays.

Edit: In fact, as Arthur's last statement above...the winner was BG who we had all underestimated and thought he wasn't in the running. Sneaky bugger.
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Graham Robinson
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I would say that half of the time the game is won by someone who was far enough behind to not seem a threat sailing past, and half the time by the obvious front runner just holding on long enough to win before that person catches up. The indy expansions add the someone discovers a powerful combo and wins with it possibility.

Cheers, Graham
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Arthur Petersen
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The most awesome victory that happened during playtests was this:

Sleeper was winning pretty handily. Everyone went after her hardcore (player being female), and killed Tsathoggua so she couldn't lethargy, then killed or captured every single cultist and took every gate she had.

In the Doom Phase she revealed all her elder tokens which brought her to 29 Doom, she didn't have enough power to ritual. (no one else revealed elder tokens, so they clearly did not have 30 even after their rituals). They mocked her for being 1 shy. Until she pointed to the gate on her faction card*. She therefore had exactly 30 and won.


*Per her Cursed Slumber spellbook
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I'm quite new to the game, too, but I feel the 'comeback' potential to be rather good. Actually, some factions are designed to capitalize on a single big turn late in the game to win.

Having said that, Crawling Chaos also quickly fell behind in my first few games, so I guess it isn't as easy (or obvious) to play the faction as well as the other (base game) factions.
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Jeremy Henderson

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Played for the first time last night with a couple of friends. I was Cthulhu, and jumped out to a huge early lead, Yellow Sign was second, and Black Goat a distant third.

When Black Goat made his move, his faction basically exploded across the map, stealing my gates and whittling down my power, and preventing me from Ritualing to end the game. In the end, we finished in a tie, with Yellow Sign about 5 points behind.

Some factions just naturally start slower than others, or have to wait for conditions to be just right to make their moves, but the swings can definitely be dramatic.
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Arthur Petersen
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jhaelen wrote:
I'm quite new to the game, too, but I feel the 'comeback' potential to be rather good. Actually, some factions are designed to capitalize on a single big turn late in the game to win.

Having said that, Crawling Chaos also quickly fell behind in my first few games, so I guess it isn't as easy (or obvious) to play the faction as well as the other (base game) factions.


Opener of the Way's ability to win is literally predicated on ONE BIG TURN. If Opener messes up when he does Dragon Ascending (or Dragon Descending, for that matter), it will often require other players to be very foolish for OPener to not lose, except in rare circumstances.

And, in any case, a generally true statement for all CW factions is:
1 big turn with a lot of Power is better than 2 medium turns with only average Power.
 
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Bob Boberson
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existoid wrote:
jhaelen wrote:
I'm quite new to the game, too, but I feel the 'comeback' potential to be rather good. Actually, some factions are designed to capitalize on a single big turn late in the game to win.

Having said that, Crawling Chaos also quickly fell behind in my first few games, so I guess it isn't as easy (or obvious) to play the faction as well as the other (base game) factions.


Opener of the Way's ability to win is literally predicated on ONE BIG TURN. If Opener messes up when he does Dragon Ascending (or Dragon Descending, for that matter), it will often require other players to be very foolish for OPener to not lose, except in rare circumstances.

And, in any case, a generally true statement for all CW factions is:
1 big turn with a lot of Power is better than 2 medium turns with only average Power.


... and sometimes Opener is playing on the Dreamlands map and is about to have a game winning move of Yog Sothoth to the final Citadel when Arthur points out to everyone that they have been blind to Yog's motives. Yep, blew my Dragon Ascending to set that up!
 
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Arthur Petersen
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bobacles wrote:
existoid wrote:
jhaelen wrote:
I'm quite new to the game, too, but I feel the 'comeback' potential to be rather good. Actually, some factions are designed to capitalize on a single big turn late in the game to win.

Having said that, Crawling Chaos also quickly fell behind in my first few games, so I guess it isn't as easy (or obvious) to play the faction as well as the other (base game) factions.


Opener of the Way's ability to win is literally predicated on ONE BIG TURN. If Opener messes up when he does Dragon Ascending (or Dragon Descending, for that matter), it will often require other players to be very foolish for OPener to not lose, except in rare circumstances.

And, in any case, a generally true statement for all CW factions is:
1 big turn with a lot of Power is better than 2 medium turns with only average Power.


... and sometimes Opener is playing on the Dreamlands map and is about to have a game winning move of Yog Sothoth to the final Citadel when Arthur points out to everyone that they have been blind to Yog's motives. Yep, blew my Dragon Ascending to set that up!



BWA HA HA
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Sandy Petersen
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It is certainly possible to come from behind in Cthulhu Wars. But, as with most strategy games, if you are ahead in points halfway through the game, you are likelier to win.

One mitigating feature is that because of the Elder Signs, not everyone knows whether you are ahead.

For better or worse, Cthulhu Wars grand strategy does often depend on being able to recognize that someone has a good board position, before they jump way ahead on points.

With Crawling Chaos or Cthulhu, usually it's as simple as "he's had 4 Gates two turns in a row. Stop him!" With Yellow Sign it can be hard for new players to tell when he's getting ready for that game-ending rampage.
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Bernard Gourion
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Sandy Petersen wrote:
It is certainly possible to come from behind in Cthulhu Wars. But, as with most strategy games, if you are ahead in points halfway through the game, you are likelier to win.

One mitigating feature is that because of the Elder Signs, not everyone knows whether you are ahead.

For better or worse, Cthulhu Wars grand strategy does often depend on being able to recognize that someone has a good board position, before they jump way ahead on points.

With Crawling Chaos or Cthulhu, usually it's as simple as "he's had 4 Gates two turns in a row. Stop him!" With Yellow Sign it can be hard for new players to tell when he's getting ready for that game-ending rampage.


I have a rule to follow the yellow sign's threat: Just let him one gate for most of the course of the game, the accumulated lag in DP will be lethal to him... If you let him 2 or more gates while his combo of GOOs is here, you are pretty sure, he will win.
 
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