Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
56 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: Oregon Laminations Counter puncher breaking rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rick Thompson
United States
Taylor
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Old Ironsides being overflown by the Blue Angels
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This was just covered about two weeks ago in this thread:

Repair to Oregon Lamination Counter Clipper
5 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Douglas
msg tools
Avatar
It's good to have a monopoly on a niche market...

I don't have a deluxe rounder so I can't be of any service regarding that device, but I have used my regular version for... *goes off to rough count the number of counters*... ok back, roughly 16,000 counters over the last 2 years (I play monster games mostly, don't judge me) and apart from some looseness, squeakiness, and needing to finally sharpen the blade it's in good order (need to figure all that out, but a new one is only $21 on Amazon so maybe I'll be the consummate American consumer and buy a new one instead).

From Oregon Lamination's perspective though they probably make these things for high school teachers rounding their 10 laminated teaching aides per year, so our usage might be high intensity.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Saxton
United States
Affton (St. Louis)
Missouri
flag msg tools
After all, gas can is my middle name. Eh, not really.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have two of these OL tools as well; so I've been watching these threads. One thing I wonder is, that the part should be cast or machined metal ... but another thought revolves around how forcefully one uses the tool. "Over closing" it very forcefully (closing it farther than required to clip, or gripping it closed very tightly) could lead to premature failure, so I tend to use mine gently.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clint Pewtress
Canada
Guelph
Ontario, Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I had two break the exact same way, try and work a compromise deal and get one of their older style all metal punches (I did that). Works fine (although you need to hold it upside down to make certain the counter seats in the cutter straight)

Delixe is a nicer punch, but It should be milled alloy, not a plastic mechanism.

Clint
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Diosi
Canada
Newcastle
Ontario
flag msg tools
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Clint, how did you manage to break two punchers with those delicate... feminine...hands of yours
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim P.
United States
Champaign
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
"A Truth thats told with bad intent Beats all the Lies you can invent It is right it should be so Man was made for Joy & Woe And when this we rightly know Thro the World we safely go Joy & Woe are woven fine A Clothing for the soul divine ."
Avatar
mbmb
Oregon Laminations clippers have really changed the hobby in recent years. I know the story about how they were generic corner rounders and then the sizes available was increased after the maker interacted with some wargamers and tried to provide models that addressed our needs in the hobby. That is terrific.

I have also noticed that since their arrival, I have seen descriptions for games on ebay and other places where used games are for sale, mentioning that the counters were clipped with one of these devices; IOW, the manner of clipping was used as a selling point!

There was a recent thread about buying used games that were clipped and I confess I raised my eyes at how many of us now demand resale games with counters either unclipped, or clipped with one of these devices. Wow. For decades, unclipped was always preferable, but counters clipped with nail clippers or with the corner cut device (or the corner of a CD tray) were not deal breakers - as long as the information on the counters was not butchered.

So, my point is that whether you use these new clippers or not, things have changed. While clipping can be done in a much prettier fashion now, recent threads like this one seem to indicate that the final word on new clipping styles has not yet been spoken.

While I still use nail clippers, I have been interested in getting a set of these for 2 or 3 counter sizes. Every time I am on the verge of buying a couple, I decide to wait; hoping any issues surrounding them quiesce a bit more.

2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Samuel Hinz
Australia
Brisbane
Queensland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
looking at the link videos it's certainly fixable. but yeah for they price they are going for you'd think they would resolve the design fault instead of insinuating that this type of work life is acceptable and blaming customers.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
abodi wrote:
looking at the link videos it's certainly fixable. but yeah for they price they are going for you'd think they would resolve the design fault instead of insinuating that this type of work life is acceptable and blaming customers.

Have they blamed customers? (Sincere question; I don't know, but I don't recall ever hearing before that they blamed customers.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance Runolfsson
United States
Medford
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
The door is a jar.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm just wondering if part of the problem is you guys are cutting something that is a lot thicker than what the tool is designed to cut?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clint Pewtress
Canada
Guelph
Ontario, Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DocStryder wrote:
Clint, how did you manage to break two punchers with those delicate... feminine...hands of yours


Doc, I challenge you to a slap fight at next TABS....

...good one though, my compliments...

modest

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clint Pewtress
Canada
Guelph
Ontario, Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
LanceRunolfsson wrote:
I'm just wondering if part of the problem is you guys are cutting something that is a lot thicker than what the tool is designed to cut?


It's not an isolated problem, certainly not a rash of failures, but I think the deluxe model is demonstrating a weakness in that particular part, since all the fails I've seen or read are that exact piece in the exact same fashion. Mine failed on generic GMT counters...

Clint
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Saxton
United States
Affton (St. Louis)
Missouri
flag msg tools
After all, gas can is my middle name. Eh, not really.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I got my two OL clippers out and did a few tests. The main problem with these breaking is, I feel, a case of them being "over closed" too forcefully. Clipping a variety of counters, I find that the clippers will have clipped the corner off before the blades are even half-way past their initial point of contact with each other -- yet you can still force the handles closed almost a full half inch past their being fully engaged and flush with each other. Trying to close them farther than the point of clipping puts undue stress on the small plastic cam action part that we see breaking. Also note that OL has placed a small raised bump on the inside of the one handle, yet it will never engage the other handle as a proper stop mechanism.

I figured with a little time spent, I could screw a larger "stop block" between the two handles such that one cannot over-close the clippers, and that should eliminate a huge amount of breaking concerns.

The blue plastic shields inside the handles are force fit in place, so I popped one side loose, then screwed a properly sized wooden stop block in place with the two screw hidden inside the handle. My wood blocks were junk pine sitting on my workbench, and are about 14mm "tall". The wood blocks align with the molded in bump on the opposite side.

Shows the blue handle interior loose, with the wood block screwed in place:


Shows the limit of blade closure of the modified handles:


If you can't over-close the handles, you apply less breaking force to the cam action part that we've seen snap off.

17 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mack_me_Bucko wrote:
I got my two OL clippers out and did a few tests. The main problem with these breaking is, I feel, a case of them being "over closed" too forcefully. Clipping a variety of counters, I find that the clippers will have clipped the corner off before the blades are even half-way past their initial point of contact with each other -- yet you can still force the handles closed almost a full half inch past their being fully engaged and flush with each other. Trying to close them farther than the point of clipping puts undue stress on the small plastic cam action part that we see breaking.

...

If you can't over-close the handles, you apply less breaking force to the cam action part that we've seen snap off.

Good point! This seems like a plausible analysis of the problem, and a good solution if this is indeed the cause!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Lloyd
New Zealand
Wellington
flag msg tools
World Champs!!....again
badge
Forgot me velcro gloves again...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It may also solve the problem of the side edges of the counters being damaged.

I've noticed that when the clippers are closed tight, there is a slight ridge where the two plates meet. When I was clipping, I would sometimes pull the clipped counter over the ridge and it would usually damage the edge of the counters but if I pushed them away from the ridge there would be none.

Modifying the clippers with Jeff's method would make this impossible to do.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim B
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If this is the problem (excessive force), then screwing on the block is an excellent idea. After taking mine apart, I think it could be any one of these issues, or a combination thereof:

- Excessive force being applied to the handle (as described above)

- I noticed that my bottom plate was dented; this is where the cutoff corners go. It looked like the corners had built up and where jamming it up. I try to be diligent about removing excessive debris, but it still happens apparently. If this is the case, then the wooden block could help in this situation as well.

- The cutting edges might be getting dull, which would require more force to cut through the counters.

- No or improper lubrication, that would cause an increase in resistance.

- Just not designed to hold up to this kind of constant use and thickness of counters (I believe it was designed to cut the corners of laminations, which are very thin in comparison).

My guess, is that it's a combination of all of these. With the two of mine that broke, I noticed that it was at about 10,000 counters, which I'm not uphappy about. Considering the results, I think it's worth it, even if I do have to buy a new one periodically or make a repair to a broken one.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dune Tiger
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Do they not sell the old ones anymore? I have the blister-inducing, gloves-required, fully-metal one and it's just as good as the day I got it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hubert Switalski
United States
Bakersfield
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
These "heavy duty" counter clippers break in the same exact spot. They were never meant to be used for counter clipping, but for business cards and whatever else you may do in a classroom/office type setting. Some time ago people realized that they could be used to clip counters and the company is advertising them as such...another marketing scheme to sell the product.

I was using my brother's clipper and it broke in the same exact spot. Was lucky enough to clip perhaps 1600-1700 counters. For the company rep to say that 3000 chits counts as a lot of time and use is ridiculous. If that's the case do not advertise the product as heavy duty and state that there may be a limit on how many counters you could possibly clip before the product breaks. Luckily, my brother purchased it through amazon and they sent him a free replacement.

They do work great but to pay nearly 50.00 for a product that may last 4-6 months (depending on your clipping needs) is a bit too much. And, if like most of us, you have a sizeable collection of board games you want to clip most, if not all of the counters, in which case it will break.yuk

H
3 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vance Strickland
Canada
Nepean
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This all is just God's revenge on you all for your cruel mangling of defenseless counters. devil

Long Live the Square!
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clint Pewtress
Canada
Guelph
Ontario, Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DuneTiger wrote:
Do they not sell the old ones anymore? I have the blister-inducing, gloves-required, fully-metal one and it's just as good as the day I got it.


OL still has the all metal model, after my second deluxe failed, they did an exchange and refunded the difference. I certainly have ZERO complaints about their customer service, and promptness of communication.

Clint
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary Mengle
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mine just broke as well, in the exact same way. I'll call them and see what they'll do, but I'm not paying them for another one that will only last 6 months.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Samuel Hinz
Australia
Brisbane
Queensland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Obviously there is some confirmation bias here but I'm wondering what the failure rate is.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cisco Serret
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
OverText
badge
WOOF!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
after reading about this failure point in the clippers, I inspected mine, and I saw that the blade could be pushed down further than it needed to, by a fraction of an inch, maybe 1/8". So digging around, I found a bolt that fit pretty good into the hole in the end of the handle (I tossed those lame plastic covers) and the right length, and screwed it in and put some glue on it for good measure. Now I can't squeeze it down further than it needs to.
13 
 Thumb up
1.51
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Broc Migues
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Had the same thing happen to me in about the same amount of time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Denis Maddalena
United States
Fort Meade
MD
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DuneTiger wrote:
Do they not sell the old ones anymore? I have the blister-inducing, gloves-required, fully-metal one and it's just as good as the day I got it.


Gawd... i had a 2mm full metal one, and you ain't kidding about blisters. I could only do a few dozen a night without rubbing a nice callous onto the palm/thumb joint.

I picked up the 3mm deluxe afterwards, and never looked back. The plastic frames (the blue things) popped out, and there's a metal dowel that wants to wiggle out every 200 counters or so, but no complaints otherwise. It's getting a little less sharp, but that's after cutting...

- Two Next War games
- Three DVG Leader games
- Thunder Alley
- All the Combat Commander
- The entire Warfighter series
- Both Space Empires
- All the original Squad Leader games
- Nuklear Winter and its expansion
- Space Infantry and its expansion
- Company of Heroes
- Any other board game with squared counters
- Hundreds of DIY cards

... over the course of about two years.

I'm not exactly sure what my counter total is, but there's a pretty distressing time investment for some of them. I can see why Vassal is kind of a thing. Anyway, for 45 bucks, it's paid for itself nicely. This is coming from a habitual sleever, though, so 45 bucks is like... 1.5 core deckbuilding game sets sleeved with any decent quality card condom. Not cheap, but not world ending to replace after at least 5 big games.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
According to my counter clipping spreadsheet (yes! ) I have clipped 7533 counters with mine, and it's still working fine so far.

(I hope I didn't jinx it now...)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.