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Silent Victory: U.S. Submarines in the Pacific, 1941-45» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can you keep following a convoy rss

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Nigel Heather
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If you encounter a convoy can you keep following it repeatedly.

I can't see anything in the rules preventing this but it does seem unrealistic.

Since you get three new targets each time you can keep following and firing until you run out of torpedoes.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Frank
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This has already been answered in the forums but:
- Follow isn't automatic (1-5 on a d6 roll, +1 if no SJ radar operational)
- You must attack and survive detection/deep charge cycle before following.

So if you're lucky, yes you can basically expend all your torpedoes against a single convoy after attacking and following it successfully several times.
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Nigel Heather
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FrUnit7 wrote:
This has already been answered in the forums but:
- Follow isn't automatic (1-5 on a d6 roll, +1 if no SJ radar operational)
- You must attack and survive detection/deep charge cycle before following.

So if you're lucky, yes you can basically expend all your torpedoes against a single convoy after attacking and following it successfully several times.


You don't really have to be that lucky though do you. Follow is pretty much automatic - 83% chance of happening.

Detection - if can avoid modifiers then probability of avoiding detection is 73%.

So far from being lucky to follow on and be detected you need to be unluckly not to.

I ask the quest because last night on the last box of a patrol I found a convey. My searches had been pretty fruitless up to then. So I kept following it until out of torpedoes - followed theee times, four ships sunk from the convoy and no detections.


Cheers,

Nigel
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Frank
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Yeah, it sometimes happen before half patrol and you can abort just after, cutting in half the whole patrol length.
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George P.E., PMP, DM
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Following is <100%, and each time you risk being detected and killed by an escort.
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Ian Wedge
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nheather wrote:
FrUnit7 wrote:
This has already been answered in the forums but:
- Follow isn't automatic (1-5 on a d6 roll, +1 if no SJ radar operational)
- You must attack and survive detection/deep charge cycle before following.

So if you're lucky, yes you can basically expend all your torpedoes against a single convoy after attacking and following it successfully several times.


You don't really have to be that lucky though do you. Follow is pretty much automatic - 83% chance of happening.

Detection - if can avoid modifiers then probability of avoiding detection is 73%.

So far from being lucky to follow on and be detected you need to be unluckly not to.

I ask the quest because last night on the last box of a patrol I found a convey. My searches had been pretty fruitless up to then. So I kept following it until out of torpedoes - followed theee times, four ships sunk from the convoy and no detections.


Cheers,

Nigel


The chance of being able to follow and avoid detection at those odds 3 times running is only 22%. That's not taking into account the chance of changing from night to day which will alter your detection chances, then on top of all that not only do you have to hit the target, but the torpedo mustn't be a dud, which in 1942 is easier said than done. Seems pretty lucky to me.
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Gregory Smith
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Hey Nigel,

It may seem unrealistic on the surface, but I'd have to agree with Ian in that you were a bit lucky to follow each time and never get detected.

At one point I had thought about limiting it, but after lots of testing it just didn't seem necessary. Torpedo load, damage, and other factors tend to limit it. And they did "hound" the convoys at times so I feel comfortable with the rule as stands.

Hope you're enjoying it, other than being too successful

Greg
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Nigel Heather
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I have only played two campaigns so far but bost have been massive victories and my third campaign is going that way too.

The risk of detection never seems that serious and even when I have been detected damage never seems to be that significant.

You have to throw more than 8 to suffer more than two damage.

Flooding damage never seems to be a risk and engines are all too easily repaired.

If you have an expert engineer then you stand a good chance of repairing anthing.

Crew injuries have never been an issue.

As an example I'll simulate an attack now, medium range, night time, no damage

#1 - 4 - undetected
#2 - 6 - underected
#3 - 5 - underected
#4 - 7 - undetected
#5 - 8 - undetected
#6 - 8 - undetected
#7 - 7 - underected
#8 - 11 - detected

Damage - 4 - 1 hit > 21 = Flooding - roll 3 flooding stopped

Next round - roll = 5 - undetected


So in this case it took 8 attempts to detect and even then it did no damage.

Cheers,

Nigel

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Frank
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Fortunes of war smiles upon you.

But detection and depth charges damage can also quickly add deadly drm.
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Gregory Smith
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Hey Nigel:

Two more things to think of:

1. In 1943 and 1944 there is a "year modifier" - detection gets a +1 right off the bat. So gotta take that into account.

2. You said "you have to throw an 8 to get more than 2 damage." Remember, a different line of the damage chart is used starting on (I think if I recall correctly) July 43. This is due to the Japanese setting their depth charges too shallow, which they corrected after a Congressman blurted it out to the papers.

So, it DOES get nastier in 43 and 44.

Greg
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David Whipple
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Nigel

As a frame of reference, I am on my third tour. First cruise skipper lost to rogue wave. Second cruise boat lost to minefield Oct 44. Following a convoy now on third cruise (and started to wonder about this question as well...rules seem to allow it but it didn't smell right so here I am)....My point is on both those first cruises I got hammered with damage after detection about the same time my torpedoes got more reliable...refit log went from standard 1 month to two and three being not uncommon....so sounds like your rabbits foot is working overtime time to play the Lottery! (I am using Tambor class boat starting Dec41 on all 3 tours)

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Gregory Smith
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Hey David,

I'll bet you wish you had Nigel's luck

I love this story so I'll tell it again:

I'm at a convention, demo'ing Hunters before it was released. A guy runs into a convoy.

He fires 4 torpedoes, ONE at each ship, from long range. He hits all 4. All 4 detonate. All 4 ships are sunk.

His comment? "This game is easy!" LOL. Strange things will happen. Granted, SV is a bit more forgiving than Hunters, but we've had plenty of people having trouble surviving even once (I know a guy who lost his first 3 boats.)

In theory, if you run enough subs and don't play like a lunatic, the game is designed for you to lose about 20% of your boats. (the historical loss rate.)

Your mileage may vary

Take care,
Greg

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Frank
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Sturmer wrote:
In theory, if you run enough subs and don't play like a lunatic...

... and do play by the rules of course
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David Whipple
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I saw you post somewhere that 20% showed up at an early convention game you ran IAW with wartime attrition so I am keeping tabs to see how that pans out for me. Am also tracking fired/hit/duds to see how it compares to history for grins.

I am trying to play with a warfighter mindset...offset risk to duty/mission so consider I am playing conservative. (For instance Convoy with large, small, small ships will get 4, 2, and zero. Would like to concentrate on the big guy but if I'm a WWII skipper, I've got to figure total ships wins the war and you never know what is on that little guy.

(as a weird aside, both sub losses came soon after sinking CVE Unyo....if that puppy shows up again its going to be hard not to give it a pass)

DBW

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Ian Wedge
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dbwhip wrote:
Nigel

As a frame of reference, I am on my third tour. First cruise skipper lost to rogue wave. Second cruise boat lost to minefield Oct 44. Following a convoy now on third cruise (and started to wonder about this question as well...rules seem to allow it but it didn't smell right so here I am)....My point is on both those first cruises I got hammered with damage after detection about the same time my torpedoes got more reliable...refit log went from standard 1 month to two and three being not uncommon....so sounds like your rabbits foot is working overtime time to play the Lottery! (I am using Tambor class boat starting Dec41 on all 3 tours)



Refit in Silent Victory should always be at least 2 months. It's longer than in The Hunters to reflect the longer patrols.
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David Whipple
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Ian

Page 18 para 10.14 of v1.0 rule book says one month "base minimum" is there an updated rule book?

I recall seeing something about extended refit in my first pass of rules but I don't see it in 10.14 or optional rules sections...can you connect the dots for me.

Thanks

Follow Up: Disregard....found it (10.4.4(?)) in the Errata sheet at Consim. That's an interesting spin. I've gone Winchester several times on patrols so may flatten out the "P" impact but tonnage will drop although survivability just went up. Still, feel like my time on station went up without an increased opportunity to shoot.
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