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Dominion: Empires» Forums » Rules

Subject: Counterfeit, Fortune and Capital rss

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Ron Chapman
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Ok, so the Dominion Deck Builder App gave my wife and I a pretty interesting set of cards, to include Counterfeit, Fortune, and Capital. I had explained (and found an example) that if you Counterfeit a Capital, you didn't have to collect the Debt Tokens, and have doubled your Capital coin output. Of this we were in agreement. As I made my way through the Gladiator deck, and finally got to the Fortune card, I Counterfeited my Capital, then played Fortune to double the resulting amount of Coins available. My wife disagreed, and said that this should be treated like Throne Room; in that you can't "Throne Room a Throne Room". The text on Fortune does say that you can double if you haven't already, but does that mean for the total coin count, or each card can only be doubled once. We went my way on this, as there were no examples or rules precluding my doubling, and needless to say I came away with the victory (and a very frustrated wife).

Would love some guidance on this,

- Chap
 
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Alison Mandible
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I don't think Fortune cares where your money came from; you have 12 coins left to spend when you play Fortune, so after you play it you have 24. Right? "Play a card twice" is not "double your money".

That is a lot of money, though.
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DuckOfDeath V
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Also, of course you can throne room a Throne Room.
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Tylor Lilley
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grasa_total wrote:
I don't think Fortune cares where your money came from; you have 12 coins left to spend when you play Fortune, so after you play it you have 24. Right? "Play a card twice" is not "double your money".

That is a lot of money, though.


JoeC0 wrote:
Also, of course you can throne room a Throne Room.


These posters are both correct!
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Donald X.
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RCrdnls wrote:
Ok, so the Dominion Deck Builder App gave my wife and I a pretty interesting set of cards, to include Counterfeit, Fortune, and Capital. I had explained (and found an example) that if you Counterfeit a Capital, you didn't have to collect the Debt Tokens, and have doubled your Capital coin output. Of this we were in agreement. As I made my way through the Gladiator deck, and finally got to the Fortune card, I Counterfeited my Capital, then played Fortune to double the resulting amount of Coins available. My wife disagreed, and said that this should be treated like Throne Room; in that you can't "Throne Room a Throne Room". The text on Fortune does say that you can double if you haven't already, but does that mean for the total coin count, or each card can only be doubled once. We went my way on this, as there were no examples or rules precluding my doubling, and needless to say I came away with the victory (and a very frustrated wife).

As someone elsewhere pointed out, if you play a Copper and then a second Copper, the second Copper doubled your money! That's not what Fortune means though. Counterfeit played Capital again; it did not double your money. There are (currently) no ways to double your money except Fortune; Fortune's clause prevents a second play of Fortune from doubling your money again, and that's all it does.
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Clive Jones

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Hmm. I notice the wording is "double your [coin] if you haven't yet this turn" rather than "double your [coin] if you haven't yet multiplied it this turn".

This leaves the door open for it to compound just fine with some future King's Ransom (or whatever) that triples your money. (-8<
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Ron Chapman
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In the end, I actually had 30 coin (I had other coins in hand beyond the Fortune, Capital, and Counterfeit), and of course multiple buys. She was NOT happy.

- Chap
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Ron Chapman
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donaldx wrote:
RCrdnls wrote:
Ok, so the Dominion Deck Builder App gave my wife and I a pretty interesting set of cards, to include Counterfeit, Fortune, and Capital. I had explained (and found an example) that if you Counterfeit a Capital, you didn't have to collect the Debt Tokens, and have doubled your Capital coin output. Of this we were in agreement. As I made my way through the Gladiator deck, and finally got to the Fortune card, I Counterfeited my Capital, then played Fortune to double the resulting amount of Coins available. My wife disagreed, and said that this should be treated like Throne Room; in that you can't "Throne Room a Throne Room". The text on Fortune does say that you can double if you haven't already, but does that mean for the total coin count, or each card can only be doubled once. We went my way on this, as there were no examples or rules precluding my doubling, and needless to say I came away with the victory (and a very frustrated wife).

As someone elsewhere pointed out, if you play a Copper and then a second Copper, the second Copper doubled your money! That's not what Fortune means though. Counterfeit played Capital again; it did not double your money. There are (currently) no ways to double your money except Fortune; Fortune's clause prevents a second play of Fortune from doubling your money again, and that's all it does.


Thanks for the confirmation, and thanks for another wonderful expansion.

- Chap
 
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Clive Jones

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RCrdnls wrote:
In the end, I actually had 30 coin

I want to see someone use it in a Hermit/Market Square game to double $100 up to $200!

Hey, buying Dominate twelve times over doesn't come cheap, and you can't cost-reduce it...
 
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Neil Evans
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grasa_total wrote:
I don't think Fortune cares where your money came from


True in life as well as the game . . .
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Chad Weaver
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clivej wrote:
RCrdnls wrote:
In the end, I actually had 30 coin

I want to see someone use it in a Hermit/Market Square game to double $100 up to $200!

Hey, buying Dominate twelve times over doesn't come cheap, and you can't cost-reduce it...


Play the recommended set "Big Time". On my final turn I doubled my $60 to $120!
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Conan Meriadoc
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chadw09 wrote:
Play the recommended set "Big Time". On my final turn I doubled my $60 to $120!


That set lacks a king's court for a proper King's Court - Grand Market combo megaturn ! Oh, and maybe Counterfeit and a Tournament to get a nice counterfeited Diadem afterwards... I wonder, how high can you get that Fortune's worth ? Enough to buy all leftover provinces with Dominate ?
 
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Clive Jones

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There's no real limit to how much you can get Fortune to be worth.

Villa lets turns go infinite, but even without that there are lots of ways accumulate gigantic spend. Bank, Coppersmith, King's Court+Wine Merchant, having lots of coin tokens on hand, Storeroom+huge draw...

In practice, of course, you stop building your engine once you can afford every single card you want to buy all in one turn. (-8
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Chad Weaver
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Dystopian wrote:
chadw09 wrote:
Play the recommended set "Big Time". On my final turn I doubled my $60 to $120!


That set lacks a king's court for a proper King's Court - Grand Market combo megaturn ! Oh, and maybe Counterfeit and a Tournament to get a nice counterfeited Diadem afterwards... I wonder, how high can you get that Fortune's worth ? Enough to buy all leftover provinces with Dominate ?


I got 7 Dominates...sadly my opponent got one before my mega turn.
 
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Gene Russell
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We played a game tonight. Prosperity and Empires. One player wanted to Expand a 5 into a Fortune. The rules say you gain debt when you buy a card. An argument ensued. We decided you can acquire the fortune with Expand but you also acquire the debt. Did we play this correctly?
 
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Jeff Wolfe
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iamnotanumber wrote:
We played a game tonight. Prosperity and Empires. One player wanted to Expand a 5 into a Fortune. The rules say you gain debt when you buy a card. An argument ensued. We decided you can acquire the fortune with Expand but you also acquire the debt. Did we play this correctly?

No. Debt is part of the cost. In order for Expand to gain a card with debt in its cost, the card you trash must have at least as much debt in its own cost. If there existed a card that cost 5 coins and 8 debt, you could Expand it into a Fortune.
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Gene Russell
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Thanks Jeff. That makes more sense. Our solution didn't seem right but at some point one gets tired of arguing.
 
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