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Subject: Leonardo da Vinci vs Pillars of the earth rss

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Pedro
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Hi

I'm considering both these games and I wanted to know how do they compare to one another in terms of strategy, depth, replayability and luck.

I've heard good things about both of them and I don't seem to be able to make up my mind.

Both seem to be often compared to Caylus so, for the record, I like Caylus and I'm not trying to find a replacement for it. I just want a good, strategic, "build your engine" resource management game. I also considered PoF and Goa but after playing both, they seem to lack something, although I preferred PoF.

Thanks in advance!
 
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Luca Iennaco
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"Leonardo" has much less luck involved and offers more options to "plan ahead" (I'd thus consider it both "deeper" and "more difficult").
"The Pillars of the Earth" seemed quite shallow to me (somewhat "obvious" in several choices, and especially luck based with more players).

Note that this is due to my personal tastes; I can see how some of my friends would consider Leonardo "too heavy" and enjoy Pillars since it has the typical elements of "build-your-economic-engine" games portayed in a lighter way.

Leonardo is best with 4, good with 3 or 5 and not that good with 2. Pillars seems better with as few players as possible (I say "seems" since I've played it way less than Leonardo).

Note: you can try Pillars on BSW.
Have fun! meeple
 
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Dan Rosewater
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Both games have weaknesses.
Pillars of the earth: The Bell-Founder. Only one card of this function exists and it comes always in the last round in play. It's the only card that allows to make victory points out of iron cubes. So imagine, all players save up their iron cubes for the last round, but only the first player in this last round get's it actually. So you have only to assure that you are first player in the last round. I consider this a imbalance. The game is not broken by this flaw. You also may play without iron at all. But the VP by the Bell-Founder are worth it because you will get about half of the victory points that you get in the whole.

Leonardo: Ugly artwork, needs Bugfix for 5players (the free Expansion called Maestro Leonardo: Codex Leonardi – II). However the mechanics work well. But I feel the endgame (last two rounds) has a problem as well. It just feels not developed to the end even though it has strong moments.

As you said yourself "something was missing" in PoF and Goa, I am under the strong impression that also with the two games we talk about here, you will also feel that something is missing, that's the way I felt, even though they are rather good games but not free of flaws.

A "build your engine" game (that you don't own already) I recommend is The Scepter of Zavandor
Maybe you enjoy Serenissima (first edition) as well.

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Werner Bär
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Both are compared to Caylus because they share one mechanic with that game: first you place your workers/whatever; after all are placed, you resolve the 'buildings' following a given path.

I find Leonardo very try, and too long. I perfer Pillars; but if you like Caylus, i think Leonardo will be the better one for you. Especially with the comment about building your engine; Pillars has only 6 rounds and identical starting positions.

Regarding number of players:
I think Pillars is best with 3, still very god with 4, and much less interesting with 2.
For Leonardo, i experienced two different playing styles: Some people think 5 is perfect, 4 is good, and anything less is bad. Some others say the only way to play it is as 2 player game; any more, and it's too chaotic.
 
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Giacomo Mangiarano
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Castellana Grotte
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pitris wrote:
Hi

I'm considering both these games and I wanted to know how do they compare to one another in terms of strategy, depth, replayability and luck.

.....

Thanks in advance!


Strategy: Leonardo 4/5 Pillars 4/5
Depth: Leonardo 5/5 Pillars 4/5
Replayability: Leonardo 5/5 Pillars 2/5
Luck: (5 is no luck) Leonardo 5/5 Pillars 1/5

Overall: Leonardo 5/5 Pillars 3,5/5

Bye
 
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Nick Fisk
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goodsound wrote:

Pillars of the earth: The Bell-Founder. Only one card of this function exists and it comes always in the last round in play. It's the only card that allows to make victory points out of iron cubes. So imagine, all players save up their iron cubes for the last round, but only the first player in this last round get's it actually. So you have only to assure that you are first player in the last round. I consider this a imbalance. The game is not broken by this flaw. You also may play without iron at all. But the VP by the Bell-Founder are worth it because you will get about half of the victory points that you get in the whole.


IIRC, there are three other craftsmen who earn victory points using Iron. Only the Bellmaker uses Iron and nothing else, the others need wood or sand as well (not difficult to come by).

N.

 
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Werner Bär
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goodsound wrote:
Pillars of the earth: The Bell-Founder. [...]
But the VP by the Bell-Founder are worth it because you will get about half of the victory points that you get in the whole.

Huh? I usually get 50-55 VP in the game. The Bell-Founder can give you 8. If you don't get it, you can normally use the money you gain by selling these 2 metal, plus the money you would need for hiring the Bell-Founder, to gain about 5-6 VP from one of the gold smiths, or to buy raw materials from the market to make VP with.
 
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Dan Rosewater
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Werbaer wrote:
goodsound wrote:
Pillars of the earth: The Bell-Founder. [...]
But the VP by the Bell-Founder are worth it because you will get about half of the victory points that you get in the whole.

Huh? I usually get 50-55 VP in the game. The Bell-Founder can give you 8. If you don't get it, you can normally use the money you gain by selling these 2 metal, plus the money you would need for hiring the Bell-Founder, to gain about 5-6 VP from one of the gold smiths, or to buy raw materials from the market to make VP with.


I should have expressed myself more clearly:
I am concerned about two things: the scoring mechanism and significant luck influence (draw out of the bag).The scoring mechanism because you will get in the last round nearly half as much VP as you did in the 5 rounds before (balance issue). The last round is so important that you must be the first player to be sure to get what you need. (doesn't matter if you go for bell-founder or others.)

 
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David Kahnt
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Moviebuffs wrote:
goodsound wrote:

Pillars of the earth: The Bell-Founder. Only one card of this function exists and it comes always in the last round in play. It's the only card that allows to make victory points out of iron cubes. So imagine, all players save up their iron cubes for the last round, but only the first player in this last round get's it actually. So you have only to assure that you are first player in the last round. I consider this a imbalance. The game is not broken by this flaw. You also may play without iron at all. But the VP by the Bell-Founder are worth it because you will get about half of the victory points that you get in the whole.


IIRC, there are three other craftsmen who earn victory points using Iron. Only the Bellmaker uses Iron and nothing else, the others need wood or sand as well (not difficult to come by).

N.



Note:

There is the card that you get in the first round that is basically, as long as you have metal, you get [a victory point(or something)].

I would go with Pillars, even though there is luck, it seems to me not to play that important of a role... part of developing skill in these type of games, is using and figuring luck into your overall strategy.

-DK

(at work w/o rules in front of me)

edited for my opinion.
 
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Paulo Soledade
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Pedro, não conheço o pillars mas conheço o Leonardo. Ninguém gostou muito do jogo, por aqui. Mas pronto, isso pode não querer dizer nada. Simplesmente parece ser um jogo demasiado prometedor para depois não resultar muito bem. É area control, com boa jogabilidade, mas depois é repetitivo e maçudo. Chega a ser um bocado chato.

abraço
Paulo
 
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