Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Marvel Heroes» Forums » Variants

Subject: Fixing FF/Doom? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
The Grouch
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Having played several games now and seen the FF place first in every game they were played except one - where a "noob" playing them came in a close second - I'm afraid I've got to join the "FF4/Doom broke" camp. But what can be done to fix them? I'm loath to suggest any sort of major change, because of potential play balance issue - e.g. reopening the Invisible Woman "Force Field" debate, changing Doom's Scheming (dis-)ability. But I've had a couple of *simple* ideas that might help the situation and am seeking opinions on them:

1) Change the tie breaker for Archnemesis to least henchmen, rather than most, as currently implemented. This way, whenever the FF are tied with another team for VPs, Doom always gets to meddle. (Alternatively, give Doom 4 henchmen, but this is maybe way too powerful.)

2) Three of the teams lack one each of the six basic trouble shooting skills. This includes the FF. But arguably the second most powerful team - the X-Men - lack two. Perhaps the FF should be similarly handicapped by removing the Mystic skill from Mr. Fantastic. While you can argue that in keeping with the spirit of the comics, Reed *should* have Mystic, you can make an equal case for Wolverine of the X-Men having Fight, but he doesn't.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erich Schneider
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think a major change is needed, unfortunately, because little tweaks like those won't deal with the "card farm on turn 1, then send out the dream teams" play style, which according to reports smashes pretty much any opposition without effort. The problem with the F4 isn't necessarily that they win games all the time, but that they make the core element of the game - fighting villains - pointless.

To address your specific ideas:

1. Doom scheming more means he is either increasing threat levels or drawing more villain cards. Neither does much to stop the F4 dream teams, according to play reports. And Doom attempting more master plans actually *helps* the F4, because it basically hands them powerups, again according to play reports.

2. Removing a skill won't do that much because dice boosting of the Trouble roll basically means you can expect 6 dice to produce 7 Trouble points rather than 6.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken B.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Change Sue's ability to how it should work, as stated in the rule book. Her power takes effect after dice boosting.

It may not even the field completely, but it would at least help in that regard. The fact that this part of the FAQ has stood so long is mystifying.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Schaefer
United States
Westerville
Ohio
flag msg tools
mb
Although I'm told that the way we read the rulebook is due to poor translation, and other languages seem to have the rule written the way it's FAQed, I have to agree that this one gameplay change will go the longest way to solving some of these problems.

For starters, it puts a big kibosh on this combo. Doom is not great but you can't fix him to any degree that would make him a match for the F4. The problem is not henchmen because most of his numbers are better than Backup Villain abilities anyway. The problem is not the lack of Lead Villain boosting, although that would sure help. The problem is not the lack of a Scheming Special Ability, although that would help even more. The problem is that his strength BY DESIGN is big dice rolls, and the F4 make it all but impossible to roll anything higher than a 2, even with 4 or 5 dice at your command. So none of these other fixes would remedy the fact that battles are resolved by dice rolls, and dice rolls always play to the F4.

For another thing, it makes for cleaner gameplay by removing an additional (and otherwise unnecessary) place to apply special ability timing. The only other scenario I can think of is if Daredevil rolled 4 Dice and got hit, blank, blank, boost, used Proximity Sense to reroll the two blanks, got two more boosts, and was allowed to re-roll all three boost dice. Is that legal? The rules seem to say yes, common sense would seem to say no, either way, it adds a layer of confusion.

So this one change would have a big benefit to gameplay balance and almost no adverse effect on the Heroes. Anyone who says this would make Sue's ability not very useful would have to sit me down and explain Everlovin' Blue-Eyed Thing or Magneto's initiative powers to me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erich Schneider
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tweaking whether or not Sue cancels boosts doesn't affect the majority of combats, i.e. against non-Mastermind villains who aren't being boosted. I personally advocate making Sue's Ready power only work when she attacks (i.e. when making a "punch" roll), and Sue's Support and Reed's Ready powers only work when they are defending (i.e. against opponent "punch" rolls only). That brings their powers more in line with other heroes' in terms of what they can affect and how they can be stacked. I have yet to playtest this, though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pragmatically turning whims into principles
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is both beating a dead horse and opening a huge can of worms.

That's all I'm gonna say.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Walton
United States
Springfield
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
franklincobb wrote:
Change Sue's ability to how it should work, as stated in the rule book. Her power takes effect after dice boosting.

It may not even the field completely, but it would at least help in that regard. The fact that this part of the FAQ has stood so long is mystifying.


That's all we did... It works for us.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Schaefer
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
erich_schneider wrote:
Tweaking whether or not Sue cancels boosts doesn't affect the majority of combats, i.e. against non-Mastermind villains who aren't being boosted.


A discarded die is a discarded die. Plus it would make me more likely to use Doom, whereas now I would only be so inclined if I had some unbeatable hand that I know could get at least one KO on the hero before the Mastermind battle. Which against them is pretty much never.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Crow
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
Can Reed and Sue use their powers more than once each round of combat? We weren't sure on that, had Reed use his ability on all three of his opponent's combat rolls, and that right there seemed pretty much a game-breaker

If the fix for Sue is still counting the initial dice, maybe Reed's should be just counting the opponents 2HITS as 1HIT.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.