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Subject: City State Rebels questions rss

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Patrick B
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Went through the forums looking for the specific wording I had a questions on, but no dice.

1. "Pick a fortified space that is not under control of its home power(s) as the target of the attack."

This would seem to only be captured home spaces, and maybe Tunis and Metz (and those other 2 fortresses). If Edinburgh is currently controlled by the French, then wouldn't it be controlled by it's home power (France), and thus it can't be targeted?

2. "remove current control marker and place a control marker and 1 regular from you choice of one of that space's home powers."

This seems easy enough for spaces that have one power, or even two, like Groningen. What about spaces like Tunis? There is no home power for Tunis, or Metz. If Edinburgh COULD indeed be targeted (see question #1), then what would be a home power for Edinburgh? An independent marker?
 
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Dave Rubin
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1) Edinburgh may be targeted if and only if it is controlled by a Major Power that is NOT allied with Scotland. If France controls Edinburgh and is allied with Scotland, Edinburgh may not be targeted. If France is not, it may be. If Edinburgh rebels, it reverts to Scottish control (or to the Major Power allied with Scotland, if any) and a Scottish unit is placed there.

2) Spaces like Tunis or Metz can ALWAYS be targeted; if they rebel, they recover their independence and are garrisoned by an independent unit.
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Patrick B
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1. So, Edinburgh considers France to be it's home power because it starts the game with a French SCM? What about Venice or Rome? Rome starts under the control of Spain; if CSR is played on Rome, does it switch back to Spanish control? Furthermore, what about Venice: no one starts with Venice under it's control; can it be targeted?

2. So for Tunis and Metz, "one of that space's home powers" would be Independent? Just confused why Edinburgh can't be targeted when the French start with it, and Metz can be targeted (French start with that too). Maybe it's just not very good wording on the card.
 
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David Moeller
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1. "Pick a fortified space that is not under control of its home power(s) as the target of the attack."

*As written*, you could target Edinburgh if it were controlled by the French. Per 2.1 only Scotland is ever considered the "home-power" of Edinburgh, and per 2.2, France is in control of Edinburgh if it has a control marker there regardless of what reason - thus Edin would meet the "not under control of its home power(s)" requirement. However, if Scotland is allied to France, then the end result is that control reverts to the major power it is allied with (France in this case). Net result is that you get a Scottish reg in Edin.

2. "remove current control marker and place a control marker and 1 regular from you choice of one of that space's home powers."

*As it is written* and given that 2.1 could be read to indicate that independents have no "home power", the net result would be that the current control marker would be removed and no control marker or reg would be placed (there being no "home-power" to choose from). Thus it becomes independent again but empty.

However, 2.2 says "By default, each space is under the political control of its home power" which would indicate that 2.1 wasn't exhaustively explaining the concept of "home-power". If each spaces is under the control of its home-power, then "Independent" would necessarily have to be the home-power for grey spaces.

All of which goes to show that 2.1 and 2.2 weren't written as exactly as they might have been.

Thus, wording of the card should be:

"Pick a fortified space that is not under control of its home power(s) or minor power fortified space not controlled by an allied major power as the target of the attack..."

I think the lack of clarity has to do with some holdover from HIS concepts of minor power control/alliances.
 
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Dave Rubin
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bignickel wrote:
1. So, Edinburgh considers France to be it's home power because it starts the game with a French SCM? What about Venice or Rome? Rome starts under the control of Spain; if CSR is played on Rome, does it switch back to Spanish control? Furthermore, what about Venice: no one starts with Venice under it's control; can it be targeted?

2. So for Tunis and Metz, "one of that space's home powers" would be Independent? Just confused why Edinburgh can't be targeted when the French start with it, and Metz can be targeted (French start with that too). Maybe it's just not very good wording on the card.


1) When Scotland is allied with France, French control of Edinburgh is diplomatic and voluntary; there is no rebellion as Edinburgh is controlled by the Scottish. When Edinburgh is conquered by a power, the control is military and coercive; hence rebellion. Simarly for other targets for CSR: cities rebel against occupiers, not allies.

2) Tunis and Metz are essentially their own home powers, unique to that one space. There is no "Independent" home power because their is no affiliation between independent spaces.

Yes, the cards or rules could be clearer. I think these points are covered in the FAQ.
 
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Kristian Thy
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The FAQ says that the "target space cannot be under control of its home power(s) or major power ally." Case closed.

The problem arises because the text had to be edited to cover the case of CSR targeting dual-home spaces in VQ. The CSR event in HIS has explicit text saying you can't target minor power allies, but that didn't fit on the new card. To wit:



(Well, if the art director hadn't thrown in a giant image of Regensburg, it would have helped too.)
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