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Subject: Forced to hold scoring card in casual play? rss

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Matthew Martin

Texas
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I was watching a casual game at my FLGS today and during turn 6, action round 6, the US player played "Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You..." and discarded his remaining hand of 3 cards and drew 3 new ones. After the USSR took his action round (the seventh), US revealed they had drawn two scoring cards, but only had one action round left. Does the US player lose? (He was at 16 points!)

The rulebook only addresses game loss in the event of a held scoring card in tournament play. However, Rule 10.1.5 states "A player may not be forced to hold a scoring card through the effects of an event(s)." Does that apply here?

In the end, the USSR player agreed to score both regions during AR7 (both regions, coincidentally, broke even) and continue the game, but we were curious if anyone knew of an "official" casual ruling.
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Joe Pilkus
United States
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Virginia
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I believe that it's a bad break for the U.S. player
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Ben Kyo
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US player loses, even in casual play. Shouldn't have gambled on Ask Not.
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Rick Thompson
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charmquark1603 wrote:
I was watching a casual game at my FLGS today and during turn 6, action round 6, the US player played "Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You..." and discarded his remaining hand of 3 cards and drew 3 new ones. After the USSR took his action round (the seventh), US revealed they had drawn two scoring cards, but only had one action round left. Does the US player lose? (He was at 16 points!)


Yes, he does.

charmquark1603 wrote:
The game only addresses game loss in the event of a held scoring card in tournament play. However, Rule 10.1.5 states "A player may not be forced to hold a scoring card through the effects of an event(s)." Does that apply here?


No, it doesn't. Holding those cards is not because of an event, it's because of a (bad) choice. With Ask Not, a player has to be careful with the discards, as that player could easily draw more scoring cards than rounds left (as in this case) or draw a DefCon suicide card that they may get stuck playing.

charmquark1603 wrote:
In the end, the USSR player agreed to score both regions during AR7 (both regions, coincidentally, broke even) and continue the game, but we were curious if anyone knew of an "official" casual ruling.


Nice of him to do so, but the US player had lost. As for an "official" ruling, check out the FAQ in the file section. It states:

Q. If Ask Not is used to draw more Scoring Cards than the US player has Action Rounds remaining can he claim to be exempted from
Holding the excess as per 10.1.5?
A. No, the player was not “forced” to draw more cards than he had Action Rounds remaining. There is absolutely no provision for playing more
than one Scoring Card per Round. Therefore, he would automatically lose the game because he held a scoring card.
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Matthew Martin

Texas
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DownriverRick wrote:
Nice of him to do so, but the US player had lost. As for an "official" ruling, check out the FAQ in the file section. It states:

Q. If Ask Not is used to draw more Scoring Cards than the US player has Action Rounds remaining can he claim to be exempted from
Holding the excess as per 10.1.5?
A. No, the player was not “forced” to draw more cards than he had Action Rounds remaining. There is absolutely no provision for playing more
than one Scoring Card per Round. Therefore, he would automatically lose the game because he held a scoring card.


Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I totally forgot to look at the FAQ, sorry.
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Christopher Yaure
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The US player does not lose until after AR7, so he could have played one of the scoring cards. If that got him to 20, he wins. If not, he loses.

I believe scoring for failure to meet the mil ops requirement also happens before checking for held scoring cards, but I am not sure.

The tournament rule only refers to the requirmeent to show the bottom of your held cards to demonstrate they are not scoring csrds. In casual play, it can be assumed your opponent will acknowledge if he is holding a scoring card and loses.
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Alex Drazen
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Quote:
I believe scoring for failure to meet the mil ops requirement also happens before checking for held scoring cards, but I am not sure.


I think there is an erratum that held scoring card check now comes before mil ops check.

See this post where the designer rules that Phase E and F are swapped in the original rule book, and Reveal Held Card now both (a) happens before Mil Ops check and (b) is always mandatory (though you only have to show the bottom part).
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Christopher Yaure
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alexdrazen wrote:
Quote:
I believe scoring for failure to meet the mil ops requirement also happens before checking for held scoring cards, but I am not sure.


I think there is an errata that held scoring card check now comes before mil ops check.

See this post where the designer rules that Phase E and F are swapped in the original rule book, and Reveal Held Card now both (a) happens before Mil Ops check and (b) is always mandatory (though you only have to show the bottom part).


Thanks for linking to the update.

My first point still holds - the US player can still win if playing one of the scoring cards gets him to 20 points.
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