Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
87 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: A strategy for gun regulation that was new to me... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: RSP_guns [+] [View All]
Chad Ellis
United States
Brookline
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The author of this piece makes some interesting observations that lead him to a novel (to me, at least) approach to reducing gun violence.

The core observations are:

1. The vast majority of gun deaths are from handguns (so bans on assault weapons are beside the point, even though those make the headlines),

2. Most gun murders are committed with guns that were bought legally but then transferred in the unregulated gray market. That is, the killer is not the gun owner of record.

His proposed solution is to make gun owners liable (he does not spell out exactly how liable) for crimes committed with their guns. If you want to sell a gun and end your liability you would need to transfer the title as with a car, which would mean that the buyer would have to pass a background check.

Obviously this doesn't deal with guns already on the streets. Those, he suggests, could be reduced through buyback programs (which would also increase the price of illegal weapons).

I'm not sure how practical the buyback approach is, but there's some elegance to the suggestion. If you want to own a gun, you can -- but it comes with a high level of responsibility.

11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I disagreed up till the point about cars.

I have never understood why the rules aren't the same.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeremy cobert
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chad_Ellis wrote:
His proposed solution is to make gun owners liable (he does not spell out exactly how liable) for crimes committed with their guns.


dear dumb guy on the link that I have not clicked on. Apparently you are new to the game. Here is how it works.
I am a criminal and run a game in my hood. I need people with clean records to legally purchase guns. My clean person gets their gun after waiting. I then instruct the clean person to report their car/house broken into and their gun as stolen.


case closed. gun on the street, record clear and we start over with a new person with a clean record.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't know the details myself but I know that in Israel a gun-owner is liable for everything done with that gun. So if you want to know how that approach could be done, see how the Israelis do do it.
3 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelsey Rinella
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
I am proud to have opposed those who describe all who oppose them as "Tender Flowers" and "Special Snowflakes".
badge
Check out Stately Play for news and reviews of games worth thinking about.
Avatar
mbmb
Shadrach wrote:
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?


As Cobert says, that's possible, but then anyone in possession of a stolen firearm is also subject to greater penalties. So it's fine for the seller, but increases the risk for the buyer. My impression from TV is that police are often in the position of wanting to get substantial charges against low-level criminals in order to pressure them to inform on the management of their organizations. I suspect this would make such a process much easier, which would probably be beneficial.
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Ellis
United States
Brookline
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shadrach wrote:
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?


His proposal is that for theft to absolve you, you'd have to cross over a high bar -- like, they blew up your locked gun safe. This is definitely a challenging area, but I know some people who frequent gun shows and the number of transactions they would have to file as "stolen" would be a challenge at the very least.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Ellis
United States
Brookline
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeremycobert wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
His proposed solution is to make gun owners liable (he does not spell out exactly how liable) for crimes committed with their guns.


dear dumb guy on the link that I have not clicked on. Apparently you are new to the game. Here is how it works.
I am a criminal and run a game in my hood. I need people with clean records to legally purchase guns. My clean person gets their gun after waiting. I then instruct the clean person to report their car/house broken into and their gun as stolen.


case closed. gun on the street, record clear and we start over with a new person with a clean record.



Dear person who assumes that an issue hasn't been addressed even though he's too lazy to read the link and thus calls the other person dumb and patronizes to him,

You're an idiot.

Sincerely,
RSP
21 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shadrach wrote:
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?


It's only plausible to suffer a limited amount of car and gun thefts in one lifetime.

Excessive thefts would lead to excessive attention.

Hand guns are responsible for more deaths but lack the focused intensity of massacres. Also, more feeling of helplessness and the weapons involved are an edge case.

Are you criminally and civilly responsible if your friend borrows yer car? Or does your liability end with insurance coverage?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?


His proposal is that for theft to absolve you, you'd have to cross over a high bar -- like, they blew up your locked gun safe. This is definitely a challenging area, but I know some people who frequent gun shows and the number of transactions they would have to file as "stolen" would be a challenge at the very least.

Yeah I believe if the gun is stolen here, the legal presumption in layman's terms is OMG how f'ing stupid are you to let such a thing happen? Yes, you're still responsible for everything that happens with that gun and you damned well better pray it's not used in a terrorist attack or you WILL be going to jail. IANAL but that's a loose translation of how the issue was explained to me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
Chad_Ellis wrote:
The author of this piece makes some interesting observations that lead him to a novel (to me, at least) approach to reducing gun violence.

The core observations are:

1. The vast majority of gun deaths are from handguns (so bans on assault weapons are beside the point, even though those make the headlines),

2. Most gun murders are committed with guns that were bought legally but then transferred in the unregulated gray market. That is, the killer is not the gun owner of record.

His proposed solution is to make gun owners liable (he does not spell out exactly how liable) for crimes committed with their guns. If you want to sell a gun and end your liability you would need to transfer the title as with a car, which would mean that the buyer would have to pass a background check.

Obviously this doesn't deal with guns already on the streets. Those, he suggests, could be reduced through buyback programs (which would also increase the price of illegal weapons).

I'm not sure how practical the buyback approach is, but there's some elegance to the suggestion. If you want to own a gun, you can -- but it comes with a high level of responsibility.



Just FYI, buyback programs are historically -ridiculously- ineffective at fixing the issue. The vast majority of the time, all the agencies are doing are buying weapons from people who have a crisis of morals or who are unaware of or undervalue their weapon. (Example: I've seen rifles get turned in by people who were just happy to be rid of them (not "happy to get off the streets" - literally just happy to be rid of them) get $25 when the market for said weapon was in the low four digits.)

Bottom line - buyback programs do not notably impact crime.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Hoffman
United States
Cortlandt Manor
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The idea of requiring "gun insurance" and linking the damage an individual gun does to the legal owner of said gun is a relatively old -- and good -- idea. I'd be all in favor of it.

Some 2nd Amendment advocates will claim it's unfairly taxing on the gun owners. Boo hoo. Car insurance is taxing on car owners. Homeowner's insurance and liability insurance is taxing on homeowners and renters.

I wonder how people would feel about this without organizations like the NRA screaming about how "unfair" it is.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
Re: A strategy for gun regulation that was new to me..
ohbalto wrote:
The idea of requiring "gun insurance" and linking the damage an individual gun does to the legal owner of said gun is a relatively old -- and good -- idea. I'd be all in favor of it.

Some 2nd Amendment advocates will claim it's unfairly taxing on the gun owners. Boo hoo. Car insurance is taxing on car owners. Homeowner's insurance and liability insurance is taxing on homeowners and renters.

I wonder how people would feel about this without organizations like the NRA screaming about how "unfair" it is.

Your boo-hoo'ing their opinion is disrespectful and indicates your lack of a desire to actually be reasonable.

Automobiles are not a right. Neither are homes. Neither are cigarettes, which is literally a targeted tax to get people to stop.
... And that's where the metaphor becomes clear. Who decides what the rate of "firearms insurance" is? People like Michael Bloomberg, a multi-millionaire who tries to bully gun owners but can still afford an armed retinue?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeremy cobert
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chad_Ellis wrote:
You're an idiot.


Ouch that stings.

Not the insult so much as the guy who created the "game" Battleground calling me an idiot..

I really need to rethink some of my life choices.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
United States
Vancouver
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Ami. Geek.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?


His proposal is that for theft to absolve you, you'd have to cross over a high bar -- like, they blew up your locked gun safe. This is definitely a challenging area, but I know some people who frequent gun shows and the number of transactions they would have to file as "stolen" would be a challenge at the very least.


I'm not sure illegal guns are primarily coming from gun shows and the like. I was under the impression that the vast majority of illegal guns come from straw purchasers. Not saying it wouldn't still be helpful in limiting straw purchases somewhat (I think having to file a police report for a "stolen" gun would would scare a lot of them off), but I don't think the gun show people are the main problem.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As I see it, the point of buy-back programs etc is to reduce the pool of guns that can be drawn from. The smaller that pool, the more easily guns can be tracked and, if one is used in a crime, the more likely it can be traced. If the pool of guns can be reduced to an amount that a reasonably sized computer can manage, then one makes the use of a gun to commit a crime that much more of a risk. Some criminals will commit crimes no matter the risk, but some won't.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ejmowrer wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?


His proposal is that for theft to absolve you, you'd have to cross over a high bar -- like, they blew up your locked gun safe. This is definitely a challenging area, but I know some people who frequent gun shows and the number of transactions they would have to file as "stolen" would be a challenge at the very least.


I'm not sure illegal guns are primarily coming from gun shows and the like. I was under the impression that the vast majority of illegal guns come from straw purchasers. Not saying it wouldn't still be helpful in limiting straw purchases somewhat (I think having to file a police report for a "stolen" gun would would scare a lot of them off), but I don't think the gun show people are the main problem.


But they are a fixable part of the problem. That leaves the rest of the problem smaller.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
ejmowrer wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?


His proposal is that for theft to absolve you, you'd have to cross over a high bar -- like, they blew up your locked gun safe. This is definitely a challenging area, but I know some people who frequent gun shows and the number of transactions they would have to file as "stolen" would be a challenge at the very least.


I'm not sure illegal guns are primarily coming from gun shows and the like. I was under the impression that the vast majority of illegal guns come from straw purchasers. Not saying it wouldn't still be helpful in limiting straw purchases somewhat (I think having to file a police report for a "stolen" gun would would scare a lot of them off), but I don't think the gun show people are the main problem.

The bolded is factually correct, fwiw.
Edit. As in, they are not coming from gun shows. Sorry - was unclear.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
United States
Vancouver
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Ami. Geek.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
maxo-texas wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?


His proposal is that for theft to absolve you, you'd have to cross over a high bar -- like, they blew up your locked gun safe. This is definitely a challenging area, but I know some people who frequent gun shows and the number of transactions they would have to file as "stolen" would be a challenge at the very least.


I'm not sure illegal guns are primarily coming from gun shows and the like. I was under the impression that the vast majority of illegal guns come from straw purchasers. Not saying it wouldn't still be helpful in limiting straw purchases somewhat (I think having to file a police report for a "stolen" gun would would scare a lot of them off), but I don't think the gun show people are the main problem.


But they are a fixable part of the problem. That leaves the rest of the problem smaller.


Meh. I believe in fixing bottlenecks first. 80/20 rule. Call it what you will, I don't think it makes sense to spend lots of effort fixing something that isn't the main problem.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
linguistfromhell wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Seems reasonable at first blush. And if your gun is stolen, get on reporting it ASAP.

Edit:couldn't the gray market continue simply by reporting all off the books 'sales' as stolen?


His proposal is that for theft to absolve you, you'd have to cross over a high bar -- like, they blew up your locked gun safe. This is definitely a challenging area, but I know some people who frequent gun shows and the number of transactions they would have to file as "stolen" would be a challenge at the very least.


I'm not sure illegal guns are primarily coming from gun shows and the like. I was under the impression that the vast majority of illegal guns come from straw purchasers. Not saying it wouldn't still be helpful in limiting straw purchases somewhat (I think having to file a police report for a "stolen" gun would would scare a lot of them off), but I don't think the gun show people are the main problem.

The bolded is factually correct, fwiw.
Edit. As in, they are not coming from gun shows. Sorry - was unclear.


Guns shows account for about 2% of guns (or about 2400) used in crimes.

The single largest source is corrupt dealers with a federal license.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/gu...

Of course this information is now over 20 years old, so it could be wildly different now. It needs more study.






More recent data shows a higher rate.
https://everytownresearch.org/reports/business-as-usual/
Quote:
ATF identified gun shows as a “major trafficking channel” in their 1999 examination of trafficking investigations Following The Gun, and determined that their investigations at gun shows during the period they examined involved approximately 26,000 diverted firearms.The Department of the Treasury and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms, “Following The Gun,” xi (2000), available at http://every.tw/1knbegX. These investigations demonstrate that this is still the case—17 cases (seven percent) involved gun shows. In a particularly harrowing example, a seller offered guns at gun shows over a period of eight years, selling as many as 20 a day. Guns he sold were later recovered at several crime scenes, and a week after he sold a gun at a gun shows in Puyallup, WA, a violent criminal used it to shoot two Seattle Field Training Officers, killing one of them.Momfort Charge in ‘one-man war’ against Seattle Police Force, Komo News, Nov. 12, 2009, available at http://bit.ly/1OC1ADB. It was not until a year after the shooting that police arrested the seller, who ultimately pleaded guilty to “engaging in the business.” At sentencing, Assistant U.S. Attorney Jenny A. Durkan summed up the seller’s practices: “Defendant lined his pockets by funneling guns to criminals, and others paid the heavy price for his actions.”United States v. Devenny, No. 3-11-cr-05235-BHS (W.D. Wash. 2011).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
So you can dismiss this or not, I guess, it's up to you. But you know how every side of an argument has those sources that the other side rejects immediately? Like how the Fox News audience dismisses msnbc immediately, and vice-versa? Well, every town and moms demand are two of those "immediately dismissed" sources for gun-rights folks. They have been shown to obfuscate and deceive to make their point, and their founders (and funders) are both radically anti-gun. Well, for the plebes. They need their armed guard, after all.
(Feel free to imagine any relevant eye-rolling here.)

Not trying to argue the point, maxo. Hell, I didn't even read the everytown link. I agree that more, current studies are warranted - and necessary. I just have no idea who could do it and have both sides respect the results. Shrug.
3 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
casey r lowe
United States
butte
Montana
flag msg tools
mb
galad2003 wrote:
How about we enforce existing laws and stop letting violent criminals out of jail early? For Christ sakes, this isn't hard. All this hand waving and discussion and the solution is pretty damn simple and staring everyone in the face.

the solution: organize death matches between violent criminals and put them on tv
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Fox
United States
Richardson
Texas
flag msg tools
Question everything
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeremycobert wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
His proposed solution is to make gun owners liable (he does not spell out exactly how liable) for crimes committed with their guns.


dear dumb guy on the link that I have not clicked on. Apparently you are new to the game. Here is how it works.
I am a criminal and run a game in my hood. I need people with clean records to legally purchase guns. My clean person gets their gun after waiting. I then instruct the clean person to report their car/house broken into and their gun as stolen.

case closed. gun on the street, record clear and we start over with a new person with a clean record.

After having gun stolen, immediately go buy another gun due to clearly having a need for one since whoever stole your gun knows you don't have one now. Repeat...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
galad2003 wrote:
single sentences wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
How about we enforce existing laws and stop letting violent criminals out of jail early? For Christ sakes, this isn't hard. All this hand waving and discussion and the solution is pretty damn simple and staring everyone in the face.

the solution: organize death matches between violent criminals and put them on tv


Snipped Obama image

Tsk. I would have put Richard Dawson from The Running Man. Heh.
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
A thread worthy of making an appearance for.

* The vast majority of all gun murders are committed by people with a previous felony record or arrests and/or treatment for mental, emotional or addiction problems. Many have been the subject of restraining orders. There's your so-called smoking gun - it's not the gun it's the people. If a person, agency or government entity really wanted to reduce murders by guns then it's be a matter of working harder to regulate the very specific and well known group who commit 90% of the crimes.

* No comment on accidental gun deaths. Shit happens with dangerous stuff, guns, swimming pools, 3,000 pound hurtling vehicles, skateboards, etc.

* Guns are already regulated. Everybody who can read can access and understand how heavily regulated they are and how few crimes are the result of the fractional percentage of guns sold at shows or on Craigslist.

* My personal belief is that since Americans have a right (not a choice) to own and carry weapons that restricting that right is essentially as potentially dangerous if not more so than having a bunch of people walk around armed. I live in a heavily armed community. Heavily. It's legal in Idaho to carry your weapon concealed whether you have a permit or not. Feel free to look up the murder rate in Idaho and see for yourself that people walking around with guns is not causing random murders and rage killings by the average irate driver or niteclubber.

* I read an article about an article (because nowadays web sites just provide clickbait with links to the actual information) that Tennessee has passed a law this week holding a business liable for injury if death if the victims could have been carrying but were restricted by a business policy. I like that idea because it's no secret that so-called mass shootings virtually always happen in gun-free zones.

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/want-a-gun-free-zone-t...

* There is a thing that happens to people when they live too long in their airtight bubble of self-righteous know-best ideology. They get incredibly stupid. I mean dumb fuck stupid. The kind of stupid that just begs, begs out loud, to be taken advantage of. Almost every single national level politician has armed protection. Armed. Protection. Many have guns or have the money to pay for trained people with guns to protect them. Read about how the California legislature exempted itself from the gun laws they created to restrict California residents access to guns. What I'm saying here is that when you have people in Congress doing lounge chair catered *sit ins* to protest the 2nd Amendment but simultaneously admit and openly justify their personal need for armed protection then that's where that special kind of stupid on the population rears it's moronic, cross-eyed misshapen head.

Do any of you actually believe that a person elected to political office has a right to be protected that isn't extended to you? Because if you do then you're that misshapen head person.

* Nations and states that ban guns do poorly in controlling crime for the obvious reason they are regulating the people who don't commit crimes and making it a safer life for those who do. Yes, straw sales will easily get around any of this moronic shit. So will just good old fashioned bringing illegal guns to the illegal gun market to be bought by the same people I mentioned in my first paragraph - criminals.

My cousin Steve, a lout, a druggie and an unwholesome person who fits nicely into that slice who commit crimes that often end up with people dead, stole all my dad's handguns at once. All of them. He had stayed at my dad's house a couple months before. Came back to El Paso from Dallas, broke in and took about 15 hand guns. No long guns. So the idiotic idea floated by the usual gang of idiots that gun owners need to be liable and that they need to be "looked at closely" for having a gun stolen is idiocy. If that ever comes to be I'll be the first guy to start a campaign to hold anyone who sells anything or has anything stolen, ever, that in any way can purposely or accidentally in any way harm or kill another person. Starting with car jacking victims who lose their car at gunpoint (morons) and then the car ends up t-boning a van full of peace-loving Muslim immigrants on their way to a Jihad training camp in the Adirondacks. Sue that criminal who allowed their car to be stolen and used in a felony!

The point? We know who kills people. Felons and mentally ill men. That's 90% of the murder rate with guns in America and most likely in other nations. That's the target - felons and the emotionally unbalanced. When you gun control nuts start addressing that, the people who do these crimes, then you'll be serious. Otherwise you're just being stupid.

I'll see ya'll after Hillary is elected or you move to Canada because Trump is elected.
13 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.