Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
8 Posts

Elder Sign» Forums » General

Subject: "Replaced" adventures in Unseen Forces rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
designer
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi, all,

Last night i learned that several of the adventures/Other World encounters in Unseen Forces are "patched reprints" of those from the base set. Specifically, those adventures replace an "Advance Doom" reward with a "Retreat Doom" (or something else beneficial). The rules say to replace those when using Unseen Forces, but i'm curious if the general community consensus is that those adventures should always replace their counterparts from the core.

So...

Poll
Do/should the Unseen Forces adventures which replace like-named counterparts in the base be permanently included in the base set, or only when using the complete Unseen Forces set?
Permanently
Only when Unseen Forces is mixed in
      29 answers
Poll created by sgbeal


(my first-ever BGG poll)

i'm aware that UF updates/replaces a few Investigators, but i've got the Revised printing of ES, which already contains those updates. The fact that the revised printing does not contain updates to those adventures implies that either those changes are indeed only intended to be used together with UF or they came after the Revised printing.

It's worth noting that at least one of the "patched" cards uses the "retreat doom" icon, which was first introduced in UF.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Julia
msg tools
admin
designer
We have dragged Reason from her Throne and set in her place the Empress of Dreams [liber Endvra]
badge
Wenn ich die Zivilisation hinter mir lasse, fühle ich mich sicher (Heinrich Harrer)
Avatar
mb
This keeps on popping up. I'll add the question to the FAQ list. As for now, I play only with the new cards in, having a +1 doom as reward doesn't strike me as an actual reward. But other players keep those when playing without UF because they say the core set is easy enough to dodge further penalties
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
designer
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Scarlet Witch wrote:
But other players keep those when playing without UF because they say the core set is easy enough to dodge further penalties


i figured that might be the reason that UF doesn't say to permanently replace those (like it does for a few of the Investigators).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Julia
msg tools
admin
designer
We have dragged Reason from her Throne and set in her place the Empress of Dreams [liber Endvra]
badge
Wenn ich die Zivilisation hinter mir lasse, fühle ich mich sicher (Heinrich Harrer)
Avatar
mb
Problem is that UF doesn't say replacements are to be used when playing with UF only either. It's just a list of replacement, and then the ambiguous sentence "Players who own the Revised Edition of Elder Sign already have the correct version of the Investigator cards listed above" that says nothing about when to use what. Normally, in all FFG games, replacement had a universal value: you swap the revised cards in, never to look back, so, I'm confident to play in the proper way, but yes, it's a grey area (honestly, the UF rulebook is embarassing)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
designer
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Scarlet Witch wrote:
Problem is that UF doesn't say replacements are to be used when playing with UF only either. It's just a list of replacement, and then the ambiguous sentence "Players who own the Revised Edition of Elder Sign already have the correct version of the Investigator cards listed above" that says nothing about when to use what.


Indirectly, it does imply that regarding the adventures: at least one of the patched adventures uses the Retreat Doom icon, which is not included in the base set. Ergo, one can reasonably assume that that card (and, by extension, its patched siblings) are only to be used when UF is included. But that's admittedly arguable.

Because the revised edition contains the "fixed" Investigators, i think the intent for those is clearly to chuck out the old ones entirely. (FWIW, i have the revised printing and have no idea what was "broken" in the earlier one.)

Scarlet Witch wrote:
Normally, in all FFG games, replacement had a universal value: you swap the revised cards in, never to look back, so, I'm confident to play in the proper way, but yes, it's a grey area (honestly, the UF rulebook is embarassing)


So far i haven't had a game actually replace components, so i've got no basis for comparison here. Since i haven't yet played UF, i can't say how flawed its rulebook is - i only glanced through it briefly last night. i'm trying to resist the urge to jump right into it, and getting a few more base-set games under my belt first.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Soto
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I answered Permanently but that's because I normally have the two (and other expansions non adventure cards) mixed into the base set permanently too. Which means I also replaced the original entrance with the 4 new entrance cards. Everything that got replaced is in Unseen Forces' box. As for gates, Only thing that's in Gates' box are stuff that aren't meant to be mixed into even after house ruling, meaning only the Arkham adventure deck, the streets of Arkham entrance mat, and the mythos deck. I saw that it was easy to add the other 'exclusive' features to the Miskatonic Museum deck: use GOA's Gates whenever an otherworld card opens (kinda already implemented with the fanmade Museum Map expansion where if you complete an adventure with an Other World reward, the OW card goes to that space instead, effectively 'gate locking' that room until you complete the OW card there. Otherwise OW cards are opened outside of the museum), roll a die to see if an event token is placed on the newly drawn card, and/or roll a d8 to see if an skill token is placed on the newly drawn adventure card. Whoops, kinda rambled there
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I answered "Only when Unseen Forces is mixed in", but in fact I leave UF mixed in permanently, so the replacement cards are permananently in too!

Unseen Forces makes the game a little more difficult but not much more, and it doesn't add much in the way of rules either, but it does make the game more interesting. So IMO there's no point separating out its components to play the base game without it.

If you do play the base game on its own again, it's really up to you whether you choose to use the original versions of those cards or the replacement versions. The replacements make things a bit easier and the game's too easy already, so I'd probably use the harder (original) versions. But it won't break anything either way.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James J

Texas
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I literally just picked up UF and have it in shrink next to me, but I tried to do my homework before picking it up. I think you have it right, Mark. Doesn't it kind of come down to the entrance tweaks? UF removes the ability to buy Elder Signs, so the adventure cards were modified to provide better rewards? (There's more to it than that, but that was the gist I've pulled from prior threads.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.