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Subject: Pact of Caracas and new players. rss

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Colin Taylor
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Starting my first full attempt at the CL bots tonight. Playing as the 26July, and the very first card is Pact of Caracas.

Should I take/enact the Pact on turn 1? Or secretly swap it with the bottom Event card and pretend it never appeared? I guess what I'm asking is, how much does this skew the game if it comes up so early? If a lot, I'd rather push it down the pile, seeing as this is my first game.

Thanks,

Colin
 
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Didier Renard
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Great to see you give this game its chance Colin!
Based on my limited experience I would play the event as 26July. But is the question about you fearing that it is too powerful to play so early in the game, and it might undermine your playing experience by an easy win? If so, I'd be interested by the views of experienced players!
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Jacob Williams
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Actually, I'm not 100% sure on how pact works. Can someone explain it too?
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Colin Taylor
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boulou wrote:
Great to see you give this game its chance Colin!
Based on my limited experience I would play the event as 26July. But is the question about you fearing that it is too powerful to play so early in the game, and it might undermine your playing experience by an easy win? If so, I'd be interested by the views of experienced players!


Yes, I thought it wouldn't hurt to try it once.

I'm not so worried about the power, but:

1. If I'm going through the bots for the first time, does it add too much extra brain power to remember to check for Opposition movement etc...?

2. Does it change the experience a lot from a "normal" game?

I'm tempted to leave it in, and play it. Seeing as I'm up first, I could take an Op, as the DR will take an Op also (grey halo instructions). This would skip it. But there is only a 1:50 chance of it being playable on the first turn, so perhaps I should try it.

Thanks,

Colin
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Colin Taylor
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ChromiumAgeCollector wrote:
Actually, I'm not 100% sure on how pact works. Can someone explain it too?


It's not that I don't understand it. Rather, it does dramatically alter the DR:26July interaction. So much so, that I'm worried that it will alter the play of the game too much for a first time run through. I know it will likely enter every game, seeing as CL uses a full deck each time. But first card makes me nervous.

But basically it's a pact between the 2 insurgent factions. Neither may cause the removal of the other faction's pieces, nor may they alter any Opposition marker already on the board. So, 26July cannot Terror in Passive Support spots, for example.

Thanks,

Colin
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Petr Míka
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I am not an expert, but I won't play this event as M26 in the first round. I think that Pact of Caracas is good to preserve opposition if total opp is already high. Inability to Terror to Active Opposition is too restrictive in my opinion. It will be also harder for you to stop DRbot from winning (if it will be able to).

Quote:
1. If I'm going through the bots for the first time, does it add too much extra brain power to remember to check for Opposition movement etc...?

Don't think so. DR just wonť Terror or Subvert in opposition spaces and won't Attack or Assassinate M26 pieces.

I would like also remind that Pact of Caracas applies only to Operations and SAs. DR and M26 can still mess with each other through Events. (I overlooked this in my first play )
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Colin Taylor
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Pemik wrote:
I am not an expert, but I won't play this event as M26 in the first round. I think that Pact of Caracas is good to preserve opposition if total opp is already high. Inability to Terror to Active Opposition is too restrictive in my opinion. It will be also harder for you to stop DRbot from winning (if it will be able to).


Yes, you are probably right. Only being able to get spaces to Passive Opposition, and not Active, would severely inhibit 26July. Paying 2 bases to remove it is a costly price. Seeing as the DR bot will not take it if I skip it, means I could just let it slide by.


Pemik wrote:
Don't think so. DR just wonť Terror or Subvert in opposition spaces and won't Attack or Assassinate M26 pieces.


True, but this also makes me lean towards Op/SA instead. I want to see all possible Op/SAs in my first game, and so this potentially limits some of them quite a lot.


Pemik wrote:
I would like also remind that Pact of Caracas applies only to Operations and SAs. DR and M26 can still mess with each other through Events. (I overlooked this in my first play )


I did see this was the case. But it's good to remind oneself.

Colin
 
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Didier Renard
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ColintheFlea wrote:


Yes, I thought it wouldn't hurt to try it once.

I'm not so worried about the power, but:

1. If I'm going through the bots for the first time, does it add too much extra brain power to remember to check for Opposition movement etc...?

2. Does it change the experience a lot from a "normal" game?

I'm tempted to leave it in, and play it. Seeing as I'm up first, I could take an Op, as the DR will take an Op also (grey halo instructions). This would skip it. But there is only a 1:50 chance of it being playable on the first turn, so perhaps I should try it.

Thanks,

Colin


Indeed it doesn't hurt to try it once... and maybe more if it is of your liking

I don't think it requires more brain power, nor does it change the experience. What I did in my first game was to place the marker close to a province where both my forces (26J) and DR were, so I can remenber

My thinking for playing the event - again as a very inexperienced player - is that it enables you to focus on countering Gov initially and ensure Syn does not become too powerful. If DR becomes too strong at some point, you'll have to take a hit (remove two bases) and then you can start fighting his forces, hopefully by then Gov and Syn are no longer threats. So to me it would appear as a good event early on to help you control the flow of the game and focus on different factions as the game is progressing. Just my two cents...

No matter which option you choose, I hope you enjoy it! I really think the game is worth exploring and don't let yourself be bugged down by a few uncertain decisions in the flowcharts

EDIT: just reading Petr's response which brings a fair point. With such a start my next Op would probably be to rally in Las Villas and Oriente and then terror, hopefully before DR has any pieces there. But I can certainly see it could become a problem for 26J to gain opposition early on if things go awry.
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Colin Taylor
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boulou wrote:


Indeed it doesn't hurt to try it once... and maybe more if it is of your liking

I don't think it requires more brain power, nor does it change the experience. What I did in my first game was to place the marker close to a province where both my forces (26J) and DR were, so I can remenber

My thinking for playing the event - again as a very inexperienced player - is that it enables you to focus on countering Gov initially and ensure Syn does not become too powerful. If DR becomes too strong at some point, you'll have to take a hit (remove two bases) and then you can start fighting his forces, hopefully by then Gov and Syn are no longer threats. So to me it would appear as a good event early on to help you control the flow of the game and focus on different factions as the game is progressing. Just my two cents...

No matter which option you choose, I hope you enjoy it! I really think it is worth exploring and don't let yourself be bugged down by a few uncertain decisions in the flowcharts



Interesting counterpoint. Perhaps I should take it. But I can't stop thinking that with only a couple of spaces starting in Active Opp, and the Pact preventing anything beyond Passive appearing, the 26July would have a hard time with it in place. Add on to that the fact that you'll probably need to end it at some point, and that removes 2 Bases, seems a bad idea to do early. Though as Agitate is unaffected, maybe it's fine. Hmmm, some thinking to do.

As for CL itself, it is my favorite COIN. The tightness of the board, and the relatively unaligned Factions make it the most appealing for solo.

Colin
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Mark J
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Well if you're playing the two as bots you technically don't have a choice as the event does have an effect. There are times playing as the bots I just think most players would do something else in the given situation but I try to stick with the flow chart.

Someone help me with Caracas a bit though. It means 26July cannot use agitation correct? 26July could still terror a neutral or support space because it doesn't affect an already placed opposition marker. Yes the neutral space would get a passive opposition marker but I don't see that violating the agreement.
 
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