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Innovation: Artifacts of History» Forums » News

Subject: Update to create a Theorize Action (PDF Revised) rss

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Chris Cieslik
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Updated PDF: http://asmadigames.com/InnovationArtifacts_PnP.pdf

Thanks to everyone who tested the previous version! We got lots of useful feedback. Overall it seems like the Artifacts are fun for people, and this is good. The biggest common complaint was the way Theorize worked, so we've rebuilt it.

Now, to access the public cards in the dig sites, you take a Theorize Action. A Theorize action is similar to a Draw action, but it specifically targets a dig site. The age you draw from is determined in the same way -- your highest top card (and then skipping empty ages as necessary).

When you Theorize, you have two choices.

(1): Draw the card in the dig site into your hand.

(2): Place the card in the dig site on your reference mat, as your Theorized card. Also, take a free Draw action immediately.

At the start of your turn, if you have a Theorized card on your reference mat, you *must* take a free Dogma action to activate it. After that action, return the Theorized card.

A Theorized card is not part of your board, nor can it be affected in any way by any effect. Its icons only count for sharing and demands, and only during the free Dogma action that use the Theorized card.

If you have echo effects in the Theorized card's color, execute each of them (bottom to top) during that free dogma action.

--

Basically, Theorizing a card lets you store up an action for next turn, which can lead to all sorts of fun 3-action combos that aren't possible in base Innovation. We hope it's interesting and fun, and would love to hear feedback on it!
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R. Eric Reuss
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If I'm interpreting this right, you could end up with >1 card on a dig site?

Player A: Theorize, placing Age N card on mat
Player B: Refill Age N via Unearthing Artifacts
Player A: Theorized card returns atop new card

 
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Andy Latto
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I really like this; it gives you two actions for the price of one (a draw and a dogma), but the delayed dogma is potentially worth a lot less, since the opponent(s) have a turn to react; they can play more icons so they get to share, or change the board situation so what used to be good for you is now weaker or even bad! So the decision to theorize will be an interesting and difficult one.
 
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Andy Latto
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Would it work to play the Theorize rule even when not playing with Artifacts? There would be no way to replenish dig sites, so you would just have one Theorizable card for each pile, and when they're gone, they're gone. But I think it would be an interesting addition to the game.
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Chris Cieslik
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darker wrote:
If I'm interpreting this right, you could end up with >1 card on a dig site?

Player A: Theorize, placing Age N card on mat
Player B: Refill Age N via Unearthing Artifacts
Player A: Theorized card returns atop new card


Return as the keyword -- to the bottom of whatever stack it belongs to.
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Chris Cieslik
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andylatto wrote:
Would it work to play the Theorize rule even when not playing with Artifacts? There would be no way to replenish dig sites, so you would just have one Theorizable card for each pile, and when they're gone, they're gone. But I think it would be an interesting addition to the game.

I don't see why not -- just an unofficial variant then.
 
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Will Moller
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I like that drawing now doesn't force you to possibly draw a dig site card you don't want or dogma via theorize a card you wouldn't want to dogma. The free draw with the Theorize action is a good detail too. Look forward to trying this.
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Candace Mercer
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Yay! That was fussy. My other complaint/question is why bother having the set of cards that start in the dig piles be from different expansions, it is wonky to remember for set up, play and finding them during clean up. I have a list of the type and age which I noted on my ruleset and I sleeved those cards differently to make them easier to spot.

To me, it would be less cognitive load if they were ALL artifacts that got put out instead of the mix. Its too hard to remember that only Age X is a Figures card for example.

I also like the idea of seeding theorize with all of either the base set, or I could see theorize being all of any of the expansions you are using in the game ie all Echoes, or all Figures - though that possible could be too powerful. Does anyone else see positives or flaws in that idea?
 
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Chad Meyer
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Is it possible/does it make sense to Theorize a city card? Obviously you can take the card into your hand with the theorize action, but if you choose to transfer it to your reference mat would it do anything then or on the next turn (besides perhaps activating echo effects of that color)?

My greater concern is that with theorize being an optional action now rather than something mandatory, the dig site might remain cluttered with undesired cards. Once you are past an age it will be impossible to theorize a card of that age, so if the card was one that nobody wanted at the age-appropriate time, that slot will be blocked against further artifact-unearthing. I suppose that anyone could theorize instead of taking a draw action, but if you happen to be zooming through an age quickly or drawing principally through dogma actions, then it might not be/seem worth it. I know that I will want to play a few more times with the new rule to see whether it seems like it will limit access to artifacts or not.
 
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RafaƂ Kruczek
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angelkurisu wrote:


Basically, Theorizing a card lets you store up an action for next turn, which can lead to all sorts of fun 3-action combos that aren't possible in base Innovation. We hope it's interesting and fun, and would love to hear feedback on it!
Main power of old theorising, was that digs sites were smorgasbord of effects to immediately launch. Especially Artifacts with rule that allowing to draw lower card, allowed theorising one of several good effects - and you didn't lose tempo, you did 3 actions. 1) meld over , 2) draw card of the SAME TYPE. 3) free theorised dogma FOR action , and it can be the second action.
Now it is much less attractive.
1) At best it is 2 actions for one.
2) Free action is deferred . And since it is mandatory on the begginning of the next turn it is hard to combo. Worse opponents may setup board position that that effect may be very beneficial or even harmful.
3) card draw is Draw action so it is Base (or Echoes).

I have no problem with 1) - Artifacts are just enough broken as they are now without such acceleration.
I have no problem with 3) after taking staring first card it will be draw or theorise artifact anyway.
But 2) invoking manatory effect at the beginning of the next round? I'm not convinced.

Also I'm not sure but with new rule you cannot invoke "take Artifact form dig site of lower age" rule . if so I didn't like the new rule either.
One advantage of new rule is that is that you can easier get public cards form certain ages to "unstuck" dig piles.
I would like the change better if I could choose when in the next round I take the free action and/or could choose not to take it. Theorised cards could also stay on player board indefinitely - it blocks further theorising , so it isn't unbalancing. But it can be used as a threat.

 
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Candace Mercer
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My concern is how do you keep theorized and foreshadowed cards straight if they are both on your mat? I guess the theorized one could be turned 90 degrees?
 
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