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Zombicide: Black Plague» Forums » Variants

Subject: ZBP - Wulfburg campaign mode. ideas rss

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chang chang

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Hi, as some of you might know. I change the rules to ZBP to form a campaign; doing / testing Wulfburg first.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/133819/zombicide-wulfb...

I want to discussed some stuff... so after a friend brought it to my attention and we run into a similar situation.. and Klom (part of our party, killed like 20 zombies with his barbarian) we definitely need to do some to limit amount of XP on this situations so that:
1. one OP character don't brake the whole scaling of the game
2. we don't reach red too soon (again with one character)

Even if klom is not part of the party, we still have the fact that the torch can kill a LOT of zombies at once, I don't think is that common (but my group tend to safe the torch for abominations) exc for quest 1 wulfbrug which have a locked area with a growing population of zombies there.

We were brain storming and..
- XP due to torch is divided among all heroes that participate (torch, bile...); but this don't fix Klom-like problems and also part of a tactic is letting the guy that is slightly behind to level with the torch, so this might create a problem to that mechanic.
- Divided among heroes in range 0-1 - Klom-like still an issue
- Zombie kill with torch do not give XP unless is an abomination - low levels again lose that way to catch up
- max XP gain in ONE attack is 1 level.

We are inclined to think that option 4 is the way to go (max XP in ONE attack is 1 level). This would fix the torch, will not remove the "catch up for the guy behind", it would not fix klom-like situation completely but it would decrease quite a bit (for our experience so far). And if we need to increase the amount of zombie needed to kill further down the road to level up, this could keep constant.

thoughts?

Also we are playing with the thought of adding toxic OR berserkers at higher level. necromancer got desperate and experiment with a new type of zombies LOL.
Any zombicide veteran here have introduce berserkers / toxics to ZBP? how do they behave with necromancers? having these crazy abominations in play (we plan to end the campaign with all 6 possible)?

thoughts?

again thanks
enjoy gaming
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Max Maloney
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I don't think this game works with XP that carries over between games.

Maybe try to adapt the MD system?
 
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chang chang

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yea, it would interested to see how they did the system in MD. So far for what they hint on, the XP advance slowly, but I'm quite interesting to see this "item can only be use for x levels"

IN ZBP need a bit of micro management with the deck, ban some characters (OP ones or limit the skills they can use) and is definitely no for people looking streamline and fast setup. It increased the setup for at least 10min per quest, and for like 30min on quest 1 (dividing decks and such..)
We are at 1/2 into quest 4 and so far so good, mostly.

We did something similar to modern zombicide, but it was only for 1/2 book. Now i want to do it for a full campaign including all quest.

We are at level yellow (most characters at level 11) exc Klom crazy big guy lol.. and we are in quest 4 (1/2 into it or so)

the idea came after playing "switch city" campaign.

I`ll let you know though if it ends in full disaster.. or if the other group giving me feedback tells me is a failed.

Do you mind telling me a bit on what major flaws you see? or see coming/presenting? .. In case that is something that we did not predict it.. and should start addressing thanks

i would also like to hear if anyone else that has DLed is playing it. only heard back from 2 other groups.. i wonder if is that they found issues, or that they haven't try.. or if is ok... or... lol no matter how many times we play it, is just one group, with one party, there is a limit on how many scenario we can run into
 
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Jeffrey Nolin
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I've never understood the desire for a campaign. Aren't there other games that scratch that itch?
 
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chang chang

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longagoigo wrote:
I've never understood the desire for a campaign. Aren't there other games that scratch that itch?

i like it and it doesn't harm anyone.. I'm not asking CMON to change the game to a campaign, and never will, LOVE having the skeleton to play as I please AND also can play it as intended whenever i feel like it or I'm in lazy "lets drink beer and kill zombies mood".
Is just a preference, I transform pretty much almost all my games into quest-linked campaigns if i can. Make a little story out of them
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Jeffrey Nolin
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chang_1910 wrote:
longagoigo wrote:
I've never understood the desire for a campaign. Aren't there other games that scratch that itch?
Make a little story out of them
The thing is, Zombicide has a story built in. Want a bigger story, make a bigger map and be creative with objectives.
 
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chang chang

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longagoigo wrote:
chang_1910 wrote:
longagoigo wrote:
I've never understood the desire for a campaign. Aren't there other games that scratch that itch?
Make a little story out of them
The thing is, Zombicide has a story built in. Want a bigger story, make a bigger map and be creative with objectives.

hmmm, going a bit off tracks here... But: yes, i`m aware of that, but the story is not link.. is try missions as many times as you want until you win or pass to the next.. i link them (as much as i can), and have a party for the the whole thing.

Again MY preference, no saying others have to like it, or want that. i just do so with all my zombicide games .. being doing it for years.

Same with SoB, DnD (but cant do it for more than 3-4 quest, now that it has a town, we are hoping we can tweak the rules enough to just play a "story book" with it.. but that one is going to take a while lol) and a couple of others
 
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longagoigo wrote:
I've never understood the desire for a campaign. Aren't there other games that scratch that itch?

Because games exist that have campaigns, does not exclude desiring to play a campaign in other games.

Besides, this is a variants forum. If you want to understand why people mod games, you might want to make that it's own thread.
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Flo Heisenbrain
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chang_1910 wrote:

We are inclined to think that option 4 is the way to go (max XP in ONE attack is 1 level). This would fix the torch, will not remove the "catch up for the guy behind", it would not fix klom-like situation completely but it would decrease quite a bit (for our experience so far). And if we need to increase the amount of zombie needed to kill further down the road to level up, this could keep constant.

thoughts?
This can fix your problem, but i think the xp system punishes killing too much zombies too fast on purpose. If you kill more than you could handle dangerlevel-wise and just ignore the extra xp you are kinda "cheating". It makes a really powerfull character even more imba.

This will
chang_1910 wrote:

Also we are playing with the thought of adding toxic OR berserkers at higher level. necromancer got desperate and experiment with a new type of zombies LOL.
Any zombicide veteran here have introduce berserkers / toxics to ZBP? how do they behave with necromancers? having these crazy abominations in play (we plan to end the campaign with all 6 possible)?

thoughts?

again thanks
enjoy gaming

I thought about this too, maybe i'll just write on the extra language spawn cards i got with the NPCs (while using sleeves). I did not get to inroduce them yet, but i think it will play out like in S2. Unless your Necromancer is standing behind berserkers and you can go in there...
I think the toxic will be the biggest problem for your Melee Chars. Berserks should be managable.

Another take on leveling up over a campaign is you play with normal progression, but gain Experience Skill Cards like in Season 3 (e.g: +1 die: Ranged with Short Bow) for each lvl reached this game. For the next game reset the xp to 0, but keep the skill cards. Maybe bind this to weapons they actually used while reaching a new danger lvl.

For the later missions start at a higher danger lvl with all survivors. You could decide to bring one item with you for the next mission, depending on how imba this gets of course ^^
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Morten Helgeland
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1. Massive Darkness has a lot less creatures to kill than Zombicide Black Plague.
2. MD uses EXP to use active abilities, AND to purchase skills.


How to fix that?
1. Not sure... What is zombiecide without all the swarms of zombies?
2. Easily incorporated into Zombicide. Make those OP skills cost like 50 EXP or something and even some low cost to activate the ability.

What one can do, is to limit the experience gaining with the lower tiers of zombies. So maybe like this:
zombies = tier 1
runners = tier 2
fatties = tier 3

at blue threat level, all kills give EXP
yellow, no EXP from tier 1
orange, no EXP from tier 1 and 2
red, no EXP from tier 1, 2 and 3

So what determines the threat level of the character? Maybe the skills you have bought with the EXP earned. So, lets just think that the player saves the EXP to buy an orange skill (just like in MD, where a skill cost EXP as a currency). When he does, he do loose those EXP, and are probably back to 0 EXP (blue level). Though, he will now be a orange threat level character because of the skill he just bought.

This way, the characters that do get those OP skills, won't be gaining sick amounts of EXP. The other players will then be able to keep up with them.

All of this was just put out of my head in like 10 minutes, and is only using Z:BP as reference. I haven't played Wulfsburg yet
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Flo Heisenbrain
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Galdrafadr wrote:

What one can do, is to limit the experience gaining with the lower tiers of zombies. So maybe like this:
zombies = tier 1
runners = tier 2
fatties = tier 3

at blue threat level, all kills give EXP
yellow, no EXP from tier 1
orange, no EXP from tier 1 and 2
red, no EXP from tier 1, 2 and 3
Again, here you are "cheating" the game mechanics and make it easy for yourself avoiding higher danger lvls while killing huge amount of Walkers (in yellow). Sure you don't get those sweet skills so easily, but i think that whats it all about. And you stop gaining xp in red, (exept Abombs and Necros i assume) so no ultra-red mode?
Galdrafadr wrote:

So what determines the threat level of the character? Maybe the skills you have bought with the EXP earned. So, lets just think that the player saves the EXP to buy an orange skill (just like in MD, where a skill cost EXP as a currency). When he does, he do loose those EXP, and are probably back to 0 EXP (blue level). Though, he will now be a orange threat level character because of the skill he just bought.

This way, the characters that do get those OP skills, won't be gaining sick amounts of EXP. The other players will then be able to keep up with them.
The problem here is Klom has Barbarian as a Blue skill. Thats one of the most op skills in the game and is often featured in red (e.g. the dwarf in the base game).
With this system you should rate all skills in blue/yellow/orange/red assigning xp cost to them. Surivivors dont just choose from their Hero Card, but from the whole list. Maybe the skills on the card get a serious discount, or are "activatable" (for a low xp cost, until bought for good) like in MD.

But if you start with Survivors like Klom, who has a "red" skill to start with, you should begin with red danger level (or orange minimum). That will lead to everyone choosing "weak" or normal Survivors for the start and improving them over time.
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chang chang

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Heisenbrain wrote:
chang_1910 wrote:

We are inclined to think that option 4 is the way to go (max XP in ONE attack is 1 level). This would fix the torch, will not remove the "catch up for the guy behind", it would not fix klom-like situation completely but it would decrease quite a bit (for our experience so far). And if we need to increase the amount of zombie needed to kill further down the road to level up, this could keep constant.

thoughts?
This can fix your problem, but i think the xp system punishes killing too much zombies too fast on purpose. If you kill more than you could handle dangerlevel-wise and just ignore the extra xp you are kinda "cheating". It makes a really powerfull character even more imba

yup, agree. We were talking about that, and is why we remove the option 3. This would fix the torch issue that is not dependent on us (quest 1 have a lock room, that no matter how fast you get there, you would have at least 20 zombies pile up), but definitely remove some of the penalty for this OP characters.

I think he MIGHT MIGHT still level up faster than the rest and send us to doom partially, but no as much as intended for sure. Is defenetly something to think about.

Heisenbrain wrote:
I did not get to inroduce them yet, but i think it will play out like in S2. Unless your Necromancer is standing behind berserkers and you can go in there...
I think the toxic will be the biggest problem for your Melee Chars. Berserks should be managable.

Interested, I though that the berserker were gonna be more of an issue. Maybe I`ll try them 1st in a regular game, outside of the campaign, to see how they play.

Heisenbrain wrote:
Another take on leveling up over a campaign is you play with normal progression, but gain Experience Skill Cards like in Season 3 (e.g: +1 die: Ranged with Short Bow) for each lvl reached this game. For the next game reset the xp to 0, but keep the skill cards. Maybe bind this to weapons they actually used while reaching a new danger lvl.

For the later missions start at a higher danger lvl with all survivors. You could decide to bring one item with you for the next mission, depending on how imba this gets of course ^^

wait... what do you mean by that in season 3? did I missed a whole campaign rule available in season 3? o.O

we toy with this mechanic, especially after seeing the MD thing; they announce the story mode and MD pretty close to when I was starting this rules.

But as you mention ... MD is just no build the same, less enemies to start.
Th eitems are no much of an issue due to how we build the deck, but the XP with OP characters and torch is giving a little more testing.

Galdrafadr wrote:

What one can do, is to limit the experience gaining with the lower tiers of zombies. So maybe like this:
zombies = tier 1
runners = tier 2
fatties = tier 3

this is a tempting idea.. I think I agree with @Flo. It would aloud Klom kill a ridiculous amount of zombies with no "penalty" .. after all some of the tactic in this game is to think your strategies so you kill monster even, try to avoid them.. and so on. If you can kill as many zombies as possible, that disappear.

Galdrafadr wrote:
So what determines the threat level of the character? Maybe the skills you have bought with the EXP earned. So, lets just think that the player saves the EXP to buy an orange skill (just like in MD, where a skill cost EXP as a currency). When he does, he do loose those EXP, and are probably back to 0 EXP (blue level). Though, he will now be a orange threat level character because of the skill he just bought.
This way, the characters that do get those OP skills, won't be gaining sick amounts of EXP. The other players will then be able to keep up with them.
The problem here is Klom has Barbarian as a Blue skill. Thats one of the most op skills in the game and is often featured in red (e.g. the dwarf in the base game).
With this system you should rate all skills in blue/yellow/orange/red assigning xp cost to them. Surivivors dont just choose from their Hero Card, but from the whole list. Maybe the skills on the card get a serious discount, or are "activatable" (for a low xp cost, until bought for good) like in MD.

But if you start with Survivors like Klom, who has a "red" skill to start with, you should begin with red danger level (or orange minimum). That will lead to everyone choosing "weak" or normal Survivors for the start and improving them over time. [/q]

I do love this idea!

Would be too much to mix the option 4 above with this?
if XP max for one attack is 1level and I make crazy abilities cost x XP.. the penalty thought would be further reduce though; and I would have to determine which ability need a XP cost.
but is a nice idea to toy with.. will bring this one to the group

Thanks for the feedback guys! this fly of ideas help a bunch!
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Flo Heisenbrain
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chang_1910 wrote:


Heisenbrain wrote:
Another take on leveling up over a campaign is you play with normal progression, but gain Experience Skill Cards like in Season 3 (e.g: +1 die: Ranged with Short Bow) for each lvl reached this game. For the next game reset the xp to 0, but keep the skill cards. Maybe bind this to weapons they actually used while reaching a new danger lvl.

For the later missions start at a higher danger lvl with all survivors. You could decide to bring one item with you for the next mission, depending on how imba this gets of course ^^

wait... what do you mean by that in season 3? did I missed a whole campaign rule available in season 3? o.O

we toy with this mechanic, especially after seeing the MD thing; they announce the story mode and MD pretty close to when I was starting this rules.
It was in the Kickstarter Campaign Season 3, and you can buy them now, with the Ultimate Survivor #1 Pack. There are 110 Cards included with the 6 Original Survivors revamped.

I believe the original rules say: draw one card each time you get a new danger level and a skill. (For ultrared: after obtaining all skills of your hero (and getting one skill card each time) get one card each time you hit orange and red again. Here a link to the rules:
https://zombicide.com/dl/rules-ultimate-survivors-1.pdf
 
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Ian Williams
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I've always thought the best Campaign/Legacy variants are the ones that keeps as closely to the normal game as possible. So I'd have as little carrying over from quest to quest as possible, with the premise being that hours/days/weeks have passed between quests, and who knows what has happened in the meantime.

So at the end of each quest, characters keep one item from their dashboard to carry forward into the next quest (Hard Mode? It's a random one) and as for XP (which I'd treat a little more like rage/adrenaline/momentum)...

If they ended up in Blue, they begin on 0 for the next quest
If they ended up in Yellow, they begin on +1
If they ended up in Orange, they begin on +2
If they ended up in Red, they begin on +3
... with the effects being cumulative from quest to quest. So by quest 6 you could have a bunch of guys starting in yellow/orange.

Maybe you keep can keep any red abilities you unlock too. Perhaps at the expense of keeping an item.

Although this idea is more Legacy than RPG, granted.
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Morten Helgeland
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I also look at the exp as adrenaline or rage or something similar. Keeping an item helps out, because I always found the first part of the level quite tedious. Only thing to do is run around search stuff. All the characters just kite around searching stuff, while ranged characters hoard all the exp.

What about adding 1 "exp"/talent point each finished level. Then one could buy permanent skill instead of relying on the temporary ones you can gain per exp per scenario. Maybe add a cost to each skill, so to permanently learn a yellow skill cost 1 talent point, orange 2tp and red 3tp. Then incorporate the same level-up system that MD has, with buying skills. These skills can only be used if you actually get to that threat level in the scenario. So, if you buy a red skill for 3tp, you cannot use this until you actually get that much exp in the scenario. To buy all the skill on the character sheet, you need 14 tp... hmm... and then ultra-red is only temporary?
 
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chang chang

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Heisenbrain wrote:
chang_1910 wrote:


Heisenbrain wrote:
Another take on leveling up over a campaign is you play with normal progression, but gain Experience Skill Cards like in Season 3 (e.g: +1 die: Ranged with Short Bow) for each lvl reached this game. For the next game reset the xp to 0, but keep the skill cards. Maybe bind this to weapons they actually used while reaching a new danger lvl.

For the later missions start at a higher danger lvl with all survivors. You could decide to bring one item with you for the next mission, depending on how imba this gets of course ^^

wait... what do you mean by that in season 3? did I missed a whole campaign rule available in season 3? o.O

we toy with this mechanic, especially after seeing the MD thing; they announce the story mode and MD pretty close to when I was starting this rules.
It was in the Kickstarter Campaign Season 3, and you can buy them now, with the Ultimate Survivor #1 Pack. There are 110 Cards included with the 6 Original Survivors revamped.

I believe the original rules say: draw one card each time you get a new danger level and a skill. (For ultrared: after obtaining all skills of your hero (and getting one skill card each time) get one card each time you hit orange and red again. Here a link to the rules:
https://zombicide.com/dl/rules-ultimate-survivors-1.pdf

wow.. that`s nice... I never learn about that. I though the ultimate survivor were just the super powerful revamp of the old characters, now that addon actualy sound nice
thanks
 
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