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Twilight Struggle» Forums » General

Subject: How good is the Steam/Playdek AI? rss

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Tod Andrew
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Benkyo wrote:
tod_13 wrote:
Nonetheless, it still has a few bugs; I think it has got a couple of defcon suicide endings wrong, with an incorrect application of cards/rules.
Care to provide any examples? I haven't seen any such bugs, but I have seen dozens of people complaining about bugs who actually misunderstood the rules.

Re Wargames, I re-checked the late War Scenario rules and it seems that Steam got it right. USA has to be 20vp ahead after playing it.
thumbsup to Steam
 
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Ben Kyo
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Forward 1, Forward 2, Forward 3... siege attack 5?
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tod_13 wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
tod_13 wrote:
Nonetheless, it still has a few bugs; I think it has got a couple of defcon suicide endings wrong, with an incorrect application of cards/rules.
Care to provide any examples? I haven't seen any such bugs, but I have seen dozens of people complaining about bugs who actually misunderstood the rules.

Re Wargames, I re-checked the late War Scenario rules and it seems that Steam got it right. USA has to be 20vp ahead after playing it.
thumbsup to Steam
Hah, they actually had that wrong until I complained about it. Then they introduced a different bug (allowing USSR to win by playing it regardless of whether or not VPs ended up positive or negative). They got it right on the third try.
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Ragnar K
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Does anyone have any information about whether AI will be improved? Or is this a final product? Thanks.
 
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Gary Weis
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ragnarkuusik wrote:
Does anyone have any information about whether AI will be improved? Or is this a final product? Thanks.
It's not a "final" product. There's still plenty of work we feel can be done to improve the level of play in the AI implementation.

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incinerator wrote:
ragnarkuusik wrote:
Does anyone have any information about whether AI will be improved? Or is this a final product? Thanks.
It's not a "final" product. There's still plenty of work we feel can be done to improve the level of play in the AI implementation.

Wow. Thank you for the lighting fast reply!

These are very pleasant news. I wish you all the best in your effort. Thanks for the game.
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David Barlowe
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Having a wonderful time playing 3 and 7 day games versus real opponents. Had some excellent games so far, and everyone's been friendly.

Highly recommend human play if you can. Much more engaging, feels like you really accomplished something as opposed to just beating an algorithm.
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Rick Thompson
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Phuntom wrote:
Having a wonderful time playing 3 and 7 day games versus real opponents. Had some excellent games so far, and everyone's been friendly.

Highly recommend human play if you can. Much more engaging, feels like you really accomplished something as opposed to just beating an algorithm.

Can't agree more. I've been playing async games pretty much since the beta started. I like the pace, taking turns when I can, and the folks I've played have been good people and good opponents. The AI is fine for what it is, but giving a live, albeit async, game a try is worth it.
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Tod Andrew
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One thing the AI often does, as USSR, is coup Phillipines with the China Card on turn 1.
 
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Grayson
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tod_13 wrote:
One thing the AI often does, as USSR, is coup Phillipines with the China Card on turn 1.

Path of least resistance to (temporary) domination in Asia. One of the Chinese players explained the reasoning of doing odd plays early with Asia in another thread and it clicked after that. Why it uses the China card instead of something else is an oddity, but thats why. I've also seen it coup Iran or Italy T1AR1.

DownriverRick wrote:
the folks I've played have been good people and good opponents.

I must be getting the rest of the rejects; generally folks have fit into one of three categories when I've played (50/50 between the first group and the second two);

- Good natured folks who go to the end.
- Folks who concede in the first couple of turns if their overarching/scripted strategy is foiled (bonus points; the Iranian coup failed, game over on AR4).
- A real a-hole who straight up slung insults at me via the chat window when I didn't do what he wanted.

I only play online against people I know anymore.
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Alex
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143245 wrote:
I must be getting the rest of the rejects; generally folks have fit into one of three categories when I've played (50/50 between the first group and the second two);

- Good natured folks who go to the end.
- Folks who concede in the first couple of turns if their overarching/scripted strategy is foiled (bonus points; the Iranian coup failed, game over on AR4).
- A real a-hole who straight up slung insults at me via the chat window when I didn't do what he wanted.

I only play online against people I know anymore.

Very strange. I played over a hundred games and never got to play against class 3 people.

Had ealy forfeiters a few times. Maybe a dozen out of the lot.

Back in the beta days, I had several cases of people who would walk away and let the clock run down instead of forfeiting. That was probably the most unsportsmanlike thing I've seen happening on Playdek.
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James Palmer
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afafard wrote:

Back in the beta days, I had several cases of people who would walk away and let the clock run down instead of forfeiting. That was probably the most unsportsmanlike thing I've seen happening on Playdek.

Back in the beta days, I had trouble connecting to games, and often had them just freeze up on me. I had this happen to me, and I'm positive I did this to others as well, I'm pretty sure that most of the time (all of the time in my case) it wasn't on purpose.
 
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Alex
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Did not think about that possibility since it never happened to me except from the occasionnal servers down issues (everybody was kicked out when that happened).
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Alea jacta est
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I had one player start a 45 day game with me. After about a week he started getting pissy about why I wasn't playing faster. I told him he can always concede. I also politely suggested that if he didn't want to play a 45 day game then maybe avoid them. What I really wanted to say was rude and visceral, but I took the higher road on that one.

Other than that dingbat the players I have met have been either mutes and just played the game (fine by me) or chatty and helpful. Been great overall, but being the internet and a game of competition the bung holes are out there for sure.
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Kasper Lauest
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I took a long break from the AI, but just played it a few times over the last few days. It has gotten better, it seems. However, its main flaw is still that it wastes far too many OP's breaking control of countries.

I feel the AI could be improved a LOT by programming a simple rule.

Rule: NEVER spend OP's to break control.

This is not a great rule to go by for human players, but it would improve the AI a lot. If possible a few extra rules regarding this could be implemented:

Control of a country should only be broken by spending OP's when one of these conditions are true:

- You are doing it to prevent Europe control.
- You can break and take control of a battleground with the same card and there isn't an easier battleground to take.
- You are the US, it is action round 7 and you can prevent domination or control in a region that is in the draw pile.
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Recently got the Playdeck version.

Played vs AI once - as the Soviets it used Destal turn 3 to coup. Haven't played again.

Online - I played on chantry a lot; estimate I had maybe a 40% win rate. Getting my rear end handed to me all the time on playdeck, standard seems a lot higher
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Update - couldn't find an online game so played late war version for a quick fix. AI lost first turn as it held a scoring card. Blimey
 
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Jonathan Schaer
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robith wrote:
Update - couldn't find an online game so played late war version for a quick fix. AI lost first turn as it held a scoring card. Blimey

Eeek... haven't seen it play that badly with me, but I've only played the AI twice IIRC. I'm always up for an async game - my Playdek is JS619 also.
 
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