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Subject: No valid placement for gray cube in opponents hospitals rss

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Jarad Bond
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I would guess you are forced to place a gray cube in your own hospital if you cannot legally place it in another's. Is this true?

Also, I just asked this in another thread, but after drawing a gray cube, when faced with this undesirable proposition, are you allowed to decontaminate an opponent's room first and then place the cube in their hospital?
 
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Kirk Monsen
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logris wrote:
I would guess you are forced to place a gray cube in your own hospital if you cannot legally place it in another's. Is this true?


This is true, but effectively the only way you cannot place in the opponents is if every single hospital tile had a gray cube. Are you sure you are playing those rules right? And not just placing gray cubes only on patient tiles?

Quote:

Also, I just asked this in another thread, but after drawing a gray cube, when faced with this undesirable proposition, are you allowed to decontaminate an opponent's room first and then place the cube in their hospital?


This question is filled with all sorts of wrong.

There is no action between drawing a cube and placing a cube. If you draw, you immediately place.

No, you can't decontaminate an opponent's room.

If you could, how is this different than you placing the gray in your side and then decontaminating?


Your questions suggest you do not fully understand the rules for placing gray cubes. I suggest reading this thread, which should have been the top rules post when you made your post.
 
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James Cheng
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MunchWolf wrote:
logris wrote:
I would guess you are forced to place a gray cube in your own hospital if you cannot legally place it in another's. Is this true?


This is true, but effectively the only way you cannot place in the opponents is if every single hospital tile had a gray cube. Are you sure you are playing those rules right? And not just placing gray cubes only on patient tiles?


How about the special room tile: Containment Room? Wouldn't that prevent you from placing new gray cube in any hospital by blocking their place to spread?

Quote:
Quote:

Also, I just asked this in another thread, but after drawing a gray cube, when faced with this undesirable proposition, are you allowed to decontaminate an opponent's room first and then place the cube in their hospital?


This question is filled with all sorts of wrong.

There is no action between drawing a cube and placing a cube. If you draw, you immediately place.

No, you can't decontaminate an opponent's room.

If you could, how is this different than you placing the gray in your side and then decontaminating?


Your questions suggest you do not fully understand the rules for placing gray cubes. I suggest reading this thread, which should have been the top rules post when you made your post.


You can in fact decontaminate an opponent's room.
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Matthew Soto
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eunoia wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
logris wrote:
I would guess you are forced to place a gray cube in your own hospital if you cannot legally place it in another's. Is this true?


This is true, but effectively the only way you cannot place in the opponents is if every single hospital tile had a gray cube. Are you sure you are playing those rules right? And not just placing gray cubes only on patient tiles?


How about the special room tile: Containment Room? Wouldn't that prevent you from placing new gray cube in any hospital by blocking their place to spread?

Quote:
Quote:

Also, I just asked this in another thread, but after drawing a gray cube, when faced with this undesirable proposition, are you allowed to decontaminate an opponent's room first and then place the cube in their hospital?


This question is filled with all sorts of wrong.

There is no action between drawing a cube and placing a cube. If you draw, you immediately place.

No, you can't decontaminate an opponent's room.

If you could, how is this different than you placing the gray in your side and then decontaminating?


Your questions suggest you do not fully understand the rules for placing gray cubes. I suggest reading this thread, which should have been the top rules post when you made your post.


You can in fact decontaminate an opponent's room.


Not in the case that the OP's trying to say, which is decontaminate AFTER the cube was revealed but BEFORE placing that cube. You have to fully resolve the cube after requesting a new patient before you're allowed to take any remaining action discs, either by playing the graysle on a non-decontamination room tile or any color patient at the end of any line.
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James Cheng
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lomdr wrote:
eunoia wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
logris wrote:
I would guess you are forced to place a gray cube in your own hospital if you cannot legally place it in another's. Is this true?


This is true, but effectively the only way you cannot place in the opponents is if every single hospital tile had a gray cube. Are you sure you are playing those rules right? And not just placing gray cubes only on patient tiles?


How about the special room tile: Containment Room? Wouldn't that prevent you from placing new gray cube in any hospital by blocking their place to spread?

Quote:
Quote:

Also, I just asked this in another thread, but after drawing a gray cube, when faced with this undesirable proposition, are you allowed to decontaminate an opponent's room first and then place the cube in their hospital?


This question is filled with all sorts of wrong.

There is no action between drawing a cube and placing a cube. If you draw, you immediately place.

No, you can't decontaminate an opponent's room.

If you could, how is this different than you placing the gray in your side and then decontaminating?


Your questions suggest you do not fully understand the rules for placing gray cubes. I suggest reading this thread, which should have been the top rules post when you made your post.


You can in fact decontaminate an opponent's room.


Not in the case that the OP's trying to say, which is decontaminate AFTER the cube was revealed but BEFORE placing that cube. You have to fully resolve the cube after requesting a new patient before you're allowed to take any remaining action discs, either by playing the graysle on a non-decontamination room tile or any color patient at the end of any line.


Yes, I'm not disputing the rest of his words. Guess I should'be single out the lone statement I'm responding to.
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Jarad Bond
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I want to say that I appreciate everyone else's comments. I don't think I've had a more hostile response than this guy ever on BGG. Kinda floored. =/

MunchWolf wrote:
logris wrote:
I would guess you are forced to place a gray cube in your own hospital if you cannot legally place it in another's. Is this true?


This is true, but effectively the only way you cannot place in the opponents is if every single hospital tile had a gray cube. Are you sure you are playing those rules right? And not just placing gray cubes only on patient tiles?

Thank you. Yes, we know the rules, but thanks for covering the bases. Nothing wrong with that. You can use your containment room to split a hospital where there are no legal placements. When that happens in two hospitals, the others will be targets and it is possible that one will fill up. It has happened.

MunchWolf wrote:

Quote:

Also, I just asked this in another thread, but after drawing a gray cube, when faced with this undesirable proposition, are you allowed to decontaminate an opponent's room first and then place the cube in their hospital?


This question is filled with all sorts of wrong.

Wow. Thanks?

MunchWolf wrote:

There is no action between drawing a cube and placing a cube. If you draw, you immediately place.

I think that's really all you needed to say here. I do thank you for answering my question.

MunchWolf wrote:

No, you can't decontaminate an opponent's room.

Yes, you can. I was searching the forums for answers. Someone, who I strongly believe is the designer, posted that you could. You should have stopped after the previous statement. shake

MunchWolf wrote:

If you could, how is this different than you placing the gray in your side and then decontaminating?

Maybe I would have to put it on a nurse's station? I'd have to look through the rules to see if the additional gray cube is optional. If it is optional, then you have a good point, but it is irrelevant to my question.

MunchWolf wrote:

Your questions suggest you do not fully understand the rules for placing gray cubes. I suggest reading this thread, which should have been the top rules post when you made your post.

Wow. So you were *that* guy. Yes, I read it before I posted. And no, it didn't answer my question to my satisfaction.
 
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Kirk Monsen
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logris wrote:
I want to say that I appreciate everyone else's comments. I don't think I've had a more hostile response than this guy ever on BGG. Kinda floored. =/
MunchWolf wrote:

Your questions suggest you do not fully understand the rules for placing gray cubes. I suggest reading this thread, which should have been the top rules post when you made your post.

Wow. So you were *that* guy. Yes, I read it before I posted. And no, it didn't answer my question to my satisfaction.


Maybe I am being a bit harsh, it is a bad habit of mine I need to work on, but you didn't make an effort to distinguish your post from the previous one, in which it took a while for that person to realize he had been playing the game wrong, even when citing the rule himself.

As for the case, this situation occurs when either all of the tiles of an opponents hospital are filled with gray cubes, OR if containment room is in the game (which only occurs in roughly 28% of games).

In general, and this is my opinion, removing gray cubes is a sub-optimal move. I would only recommend removing a gray cube if you are about to use the room you remove the cube from, or you have a special room that gives you benefits related to gray cubes. If you remove a cube in other cases, the action could have been better used doing something different (or stored for a later turn).

Now to examine this with a few scenarios:

Scenario 1: Opponents hospital is completely filled with gray cubes.

Solution: You can remove a gray cube from opponents hospital, and HOPE to draw a replacement gray cube to fill in the gap
-OR-
You can draw your cubes normally, place the gray one in your own hospital (if it comes up), and then remove it.

In the first case, you've spent one of your actions to help an opponent without the guarantee that you will harm them again. Actions are precious. This is a waste.

In the second case, an action is only spent if you draw a gray cube, so there is also a chance no action is spent on cleaning. (and yes, if you place it in a nurses station it is a MAY, so you do not need to add an extra gray cube).

Of these two it is more optimal to be reactive than proactive.

Scenario 2: Containment is in the game. Opponent has containment with one room after it with a gray cube in it.

This took a lot of effort to set up (wasting several of their actions while you were scoring points). So should you decontaminate it? I would look at how many players there are. If it is a two player game, in this case it's 50/50. If you clean it, and don't draw a gray cube, they will just put their first gray cube drawn into that space. The net result is you lost an action, and they did not lose an action. You could end up losing an action each turn fighting this if you do not draw gray cubes. That would be bad.

If there are four players, then the first player following should definitely clean, and then all three players could add gray cubes.

That player will then learn it is not good to only have 1 room after a containment room.

Scenario 3: Containment is in the game. Opponent has containment with two or more rooms after it with a gray cubes in them.

I would let them have it. Use the gray cubes to throw on other players.


Nutshell: Yes, there may be a case for removing a gray cube from an opponent's hospital, but it only occurs in 28% of games, and even then it is a sub-optimal move of a sub-optimal move. It is extremely situational, where a majority of situations say Don't Do It.
 
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Jarad Bond
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MunchWolf wrote:
In general, and this is my opinion, removing gray cubes is a sub-optimal move. I would only recommend removing a gray cube if you are about to use the room you remove the cube from, or you have a special room that gives you benefits related to gray cubes. If you remove a cube in other cases, the action could have been better used doing something different (or stored for a later turn).
...
Nutshell: Yes, there may be a case for removing a gray cube from an opponent's hospital, but it only occurs in 28% of games, and even then it is a sub-optimal move of a sub-optimal move. It is extremely situational, where a majority of situations say Don't Do It.

You'll get no argument from me.

My question was simply predicated on drawing a cube and whether or not you had time to clear a spot somewhere else or if you had to place it in your hospital. I've come to all the same conclusions that you have, except for:

MunchWolf wrote:

Scenario 2: Containment is in the game. Opponent has containment with one room after it with a gray cube in it.
...The net result is you lost an action, and they did not lose an action.

I would argue that they will have to spend their next gray cube re-establishing their containment instead of mucking with your hospital, thereby saving you an action to decontaminate later. A net wash, for the possible gain of wreaking havoc in their hospital if they have nurses stations built up. It is situational, of course, but you haven't *really* lost an action - just delayed it.
 
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