Christoph M.
Germany
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While Mage Knight is easily my favourite game, there are still some small issues I have with it. Now that we’ve received a streamlined version, let’s take a look at what’s worth to be incorporated into the original.
The list of changes according to user ricky2002:
ricky2002 wrote:
1. You always get +1 Experience (ie Fame) when you explore
2. There is no day/night
3. A new mana (now "data") type of purple which can be used as purple to power some rare cards or rerolled
4. black still powers "undiscovered" items (ie spells) but is not limited to just night-time.
5. There is no artefacts deck - spells and artefacts are merged into one deck.
6. Unfortified sites are re-themed as planets you can beam down to, taking one or more crew with you as well as your "captain"
7. Units cannot soak up damage when fighting enemy space-craft (the rampaging enemies and "fortified" sites).
8. Your captain and units can be "wounded" and "healed"; your ship can be "damaged" and "repaired". i.e. there is a new type of "wound" and now two types of "healing". Magical glades have become docking stations where you can repair your ship, and villages are ports where you can heal your crew/captain. A wounded captain is a very bad thing!
9. You do not need Movement to assault adjacent locations, you just assault it as your action.
10. You can use Diplomacy (i.e. influence) to overcome enemies on planets you beam down to, to avoid a fight.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1590747/please-post-rules/p...

Points 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 are all ok in the original and imho in no way superior in Frontiers; no need to change anything.
But I find the changes regarding 1 and 10 quote interesting.
ricky2002 wrote:
1. You always get +1 Experience (ie Fame) when you explore

Imho, exploring in a competitive game is often a waste of movement, since most time you spend movement, but the next player is the first to react to the new tile and position himself. In our games, we often find no one willing to explore, since it imbues a cost, but mostly benefit other players.
Possible solutions are:
a) Let the explorer orient the tile as he likes. BIG bonus, can be really harsh to other players if they are completely blocked. Potentially to extreme imho.
b) The Frontiers solution: reward 1 xp to the explorer
c) A stronger version of the Frontiers solution: reward 2 xp to the explorer. Reasoning: in Frontiers you get 1 xp, but movement is not as critical in Frontiers as it is in Mage Knight, mostly because you don’t need movement to attack fortified sites.
d) Variant c) seems very strong in the beginning, so why not +1 fame for revealing countryside, +2 for core tiles?

The other weakness I see is influence. No one uses influence skills, ever. They’re just too limited in use.
Frontiers makes additional use of influence by introducing a diplomacy phase:
ricky2002 wrote:
10. You can use Diplomacy (i.e. influence) to overcome enemies on planets you beam down to, to avoid a fight.

They added an additional phase when attacking the equivalent of a Monster Den (class L planet) or Dungeon (class K planet). Before the ranged combat phase, you can try to overcome the enemies by using influence. Every such enemy has an additional “diplomacy” value.
In Frontiers, those enemies come in two different stacks for Dungeons and Monster Dens, without any special abilities, and with identical combat values apart from Diplomacy, which is always 1 point higher for Dungeon creatures. The diplomacy value is Fame +3 for Monster Den, Fame +4 for Dungeons.
This could be easily transferred to Mage Knight.
While it is thematically hard to explain this, rules-wise it is very reasonable. If you are at a civilized (fortified) site, you already can make use of your influence (if necessary after you conquer it). But if only dungeons, monster dens and ruins are around you, Influence is absolutely useless.
Thus I’ll try out the following two rules tweaks, inspired from Frontiers:

TLDR;
1. Exploring a new tile earns you +1 fame for countryside tiles, +2 fame for core tiles.
2. Enemies in Monster Dens can be overcome by Intimidation. Therefore, you add a special intimidation phase at the beginning of the combat, right before the Ranged and Sieged Attack Phase. In this phase, you can use influence to defeat enemies. If facing more than one enemy, it is possible to scare away only some of the enemies. The value you need to reach with influence is enemy’s fame +3 for Monster Dens (and Monster Hives) and fame +4 for Dungeons (and Tombs). Since this is not an interaction, reputation doesn’t work.


What do you think?
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Jack Spirio
Austria
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You should add to the tldr that you don't get fame for the monsters you "influenced" away
 
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Greece
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Having to spend movement points to explore is a nice balancing cost to delay the player ahead. Such a cost is necessary because being ahead and having the chance to get sites before others / block the others' paths is a significant advantage. The player ahead is responsible for managing his movement points to explore a new map tile and then potenatilly interacting with the new sites, before anyone else..

A +1 fame bonus for exploring can be very strong early awarding levels earlier than normal, and causing a snowball effect from there. I would be very wary about implementing this Frontier rule. After all, Vlaada and his playtesters had probably tested the rule (it exists as a rule in the turotial scenario) and they had their reasons for not keeping it in the other scenarios.
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Christoph M.
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Jack Spirio wrote:
You should add to the tldr that you don't get fame for the monsters you "influenced" away


Should I? Actually, in Frontiers you DO get xp for defeating an enemy via diplomacy. Getting to 7-12 influence is not THAT easy.

tokou wrote:
Having to spend movement points to explore is a nice balancing cost to delay the player ahead. Such a cost is necessary because being ahead and having the chance to get sites before others / block the others' paths is a significant advantage. The player ahead is responsible for managing his movement points to explore a new map tile and then potenatilly interacting with the new sites, before anyone else..

A +1 fame bonus for exploring can be very strong early awarding levels earlier than normal, and causing a snowball effect from there. I would be very wary about implementing this Frontier rule. After all, Vlaada and his playtesters had probably tested the rule (it exists as a rule in the turotial scenario) and they had their reasons for not keeping it in the other scenarios.


Not sure about this one. In our games (mostly 2 players), the player storming over the battlefield doesn't have any benefit of this, but uses up all his movement cards. Being ahead doesn't lead to a better position, since the (random) tiles don't get better. This may change with 4 players in the very first turn, but with two there's always enough to do.
I would never use that rule in a solo game.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
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Didier Renard
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I find the idea of +1 fame appealing as a means to develop your character slightly faster, but as I am primarily a solo player I am intrigued by your last comment Christoph. Does this rule change for the solo game in Star Treck Frontier?
 
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Christoph M.
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In frontiers it is always +1 afaik, but then again Frontiers in general is easier and more forgiving than MK.
 
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