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Subject: Rules for Zombie Horde rss

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Kirk Nelson
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What a disaster! Second game and my buddy and I were overrun by the Horde!

Now that might be a fun experience (see Zombicide) but this was more due to an oversight in the play testing regarding player count. Trying to combat this villain in a game with two players vs one with 6 is not going to play the same. Not by a long shot.

First off, it would seem that the ideal way to win would be to just attack the villain immediately. The Horde only has a combat of 2 at the beginning and there is no Final Combat rules on the Villain Card.

Secondly, the Infected player is a bit too extreme. Once infected the player has a 50% chance of not fighting off the infection. And after that the same odds for then turning into a zombie. Once that happens, the player doesn't really get to do much but remove cards. There isn't even anything that would allow the player to fight a healthy player. Essentially the zombie player is out of the game. it would have been so much better to have the infected player be able to reset their card if they stave off the infection the second time - after it turns 90 degrees if the player rolls a 1,2, or 3 the card resets to its upright position giving them more chances to continue to play while adding even more tension to the infection. I'm officially house-ruling this.

And finally the issue with the balancing. I hope this is not the trend when I play the other villains. I love this game but improper balancing really drives down the enjoyment.
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A.J. Porfirio
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My question is, how much damage is required to defeat the zombie horde?
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Jason Monroe
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vanrydergames wrote:
My question is, how much damage is required to defeat the zombie horde?


I haven't played the zombie horde yet, so far all the ones I have played is simply to make it thru the villains draw deck and then you win.
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Kirk Nelson
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The rules for the villain in this scenario is simply defeat the Horde. It could mean to get through the deck but this would prove extremely difficult, especially with the infected player mechanic and lower player counts. Or, since you are fighting the Horde constantly, trying to whittle down the numbers, it could just mean that you eliminate all of the allied cards and the original Horde. Not sure. Some clarification would help. Especially on the scaling of the game.

It is poor design to make a game for "1-6 players" to be impossible to win if the count is less than 3 or 4. I wonder about play testing on these games. Do they always test it with just the ideal number of players or with all variations? I am having similar issues with another game I am trying to play and this is getting frustrating.

Hopefully we can get some kind of judgement from the designer. The FAQ doesn't help in this case.
 
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A.J. Porfirio
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quidom wrote:
The rules for the villain in this scenario is simply defeat the Horde. It could mean to get through the deck but this would prove extremely difficult, especially with the infected player mechanic and lower player counts. Or, since you are fighting the Horde constantly, trying to whittle down the numbers, it could just mean that you eliminate all of the allied cards and the original Horde. Not sure. Some clarification would help. Especially on the scaling of the game.

It is poor design to make a game for "1-6 players" to be impossible to win if the count is less than 3 or 4. I wonder about play testing on these games. Do they always test it with just the ideal number of players or with all variations? I am having similar issues with another game I am trying to play and this is getting frustrating.

Hopefully we can get some kind of judgement from the designer. The FAQ doesn't help in this case.


On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other I am not getting too bent out of shape about the small edge cases and just making a call. This is not a major strategy game.

But something like the health of the horde? That seems pretty critical and like something that should definitely be defined.

Maybe I missed it?
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Christopher Brown
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vanrydergames wrote:
My question is, how much damage is required to defeat the zombie horde?


The Villan's life points, as with most villains, is their deck. In order to defeat them, you must reduce their deck to 0 cards.
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Christopher Brown
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quidom wrote:
The rules for the villain in this scenario is simply defeat the Horde. It could mean to get through the deck but this would prove extremely difficult, especially with the infected player mechanic and lower player counts. Or, since you are fighting the Horde constantly, trying to whittle down the numbers, it could just mean that you eliminate all of the allied cards and the original Horde. Not sure. Some clarification would help. Especially on the scaling of the game.

It is poor design to make a game for "1-6 players" to be impossible to win if the count is less than 3 or 4. I wonder about play testing on these games. Do they always test it with just the ideal number of players or with all variations? I am having similar issues with another game I am trying to play and this is getting frustrating.

Hopefully we can get some kind of judgement from the designer. The FAQ doesn't help in this case.


You are right, there are some scenarios/Villains that are much simpler to play with more player counts but this was one of the intents for this Villain. We wanted this one to be more difficult because if you were to go against the horde with less people, it is going to be harder to defeat it. It was also why we added the removal of an attached Ally from the Horde when you damage the Horde. It helps to keep them manageable.

As for the Infected Player getting cured, honestly it is your game and you may house rule that if you like. No one will come and tell you not to. I will also admit that your idea has merit. It is in the same line as what we did with the Body Snatchers. You can cure the player in those instances. I made the choice to have the Zombie Player be incurable simply because I wanted to give the player a different experience. Again, if you choose to house rule and make it so that the Zombie Player can be cured or they can reset the infection on certain rolls, go for it. Just understand that we intended this one to be especially difficult with lower player counts.
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A.J. Porfirio
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maverick444 wrote:
vanrydergames wrote:
My question is, how much damage is required to defeat the zombie horde?


The Villan's life points, as with most villains, is their deck. In order to defeat them, you must reduce their deck to 0 cards.


So does that mean if we damage the villain and there are no ally cards in the Horde we get to flip cards off the villain deck into the discard pile?

Sorry if I missed a rule about this somewhere, but I don't remember seeing it.
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Christopher Brown
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vanrydergames wrote:
maverick444 wrote:
vanrydergames wrote:
My question is, how much damage is required to defeat the zombie horde?


The Villan's life points, as with most villains, is their deck. In order to defeat them, you must reduce their deck to 0 cards.


So does that mean if we damage the villain and there are no ally cards in the Horde we get to flip cards off the villain deck into the discard pile?

Sorry if I missed a rule about this somewhere, but I don't remember seeing it.


You would actually still overturn cards from the Villain deck even if there are allies attached to them. Just like with all Villains, you would overturn damage equal to the difference. So if you rolled 5 SUCCESSES and the Villain rolled 2, you would overturn 3 cards from the Villain deck. In addition for this Villain, you would also detach one of their Allies making the Horde weaker.
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Christopher Brown
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vanrydergames wrote:
maverick444 wrote:
vanrydergames wrote:
My question is, how much damage is required to defeat the zombie horde?


The Villan's life points, as with most villains, is their deck. In order to defeat them, you must reduce their deck to 0 cards.


So does that mean if we damage the villain and there are no ally cards in the Horde we get to flip cards off the villain deck into the discard pile?

Sorry if I missed a rule about this somewhere, but I don't remember seeing it.


I also just noticed that you are the one who made Hostage Negotiator! I bought that and all of the expansions. I was just telling George that I have never once saved those darn hostages. Every single time...dead. One day though! I can't wait for the next set.
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Kirk Nelson
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Thank you Christopher for straightening that out. And for lesser players I will happily house-rule the infected player knowing that you won't be knocking at my door to chastise me or cart me off to Boardgame Prison!

I am really enjoying the game (despite the Horde) and your help in understanding it is always very appreciated.

And as for Hostage Negotiator...I won my first game - lost every time after that.
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Christopher Brown
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quidom wrote:
Thank you Christopher for straightening that out. And for lesser players I will happily house-rule the infected player knowing that you won't be knocking at my door to chastise me or cart me off to Boardgame Prison!

I am really enjoying the game (despite the Horde) and your help in understanding it is always very appreciated.

And as for Hostage Negotiator...I won my first game - lost every time after that.


And please do not hesitate to offer advice on the game (Slaughterville or Hostage Negotiator). It is always appreciated.
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A.J. Porfirio
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Awesome, thanks for the response. I played the Carnival first which might have messed me up a little bit for the rules changes in Zombie Horde. That helps a lot. Planning to play tonight (diff scenario though) with my kids, we really love the theme and the story the game creates!

Yeah re:Hostage Negotiator I wanted it to be difficult but winnable. I put a strategy tips post on the game's BGG forum if you need any help You should be able to win about 50% of the time with solid play, at least against the base game Abductors (the packs are a bit more challenging).
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A.J. Porfirio
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maverick444 wrote:
vanrydergames wrote:
maverick444 wrote:
vanrydergames wrote:
My question is, how much damage is required to defeat the zombie horde?


The Villan's life points, as with most villains, is their deck. In order to defeat them, you must reduce their deck to 0 cards.


So does that mean if we damage the villain and there are no ally cards in the Horde we get to flip cards off the villain deck into the discard pile?

Sorry if I missed a rule about this somewhere, but I don't remember seeing it.


You would actually still overturn cards from the Villain deck even if there are allies attached to them. Just like with all Villains, you would overturn damage equal to the difference. So if you rolled 5 SUCCESSES and the Villain rolled 2, you would overturn 3 cards from the Villain deck. In addition for this Villain, you would also detach one of their Allies making the Horde weaker.


hmm ok sorry just to clarify... so you always flip the net damage, in your example 3 cards. But regardless of how much damage (whether 1 or 10), you always only remove 1 ally card from the horde. Is that correct?
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Christopher Brown
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vanrydergames wrote:
maverick444 wrote:
vanrydergames wrote:
maverick444 wrote:
vanrydergames wrote:
My question is, how much damage is required to defeat the zombie horde?


The Villan's life points, as with most villains, is their deck. In order to defeat them, you must reduce their deck to 0 cards.


So does that mean if we damage the villain and there are no ally cards in the Horde we get to flip cards off the villain deck into the discard pile?

Sorry if I missed a rule about this somewhere, but I don't remember seeing it.


You would actually still overturn cards from the Villain deck even if there are allies attached to them. Just like with all Villains, you would overturn damage equal to the difference. So if you rolled 5 SUCCESSES and the Villain rolled 2, you would overturn 3 cards from the Villain deck. In addition for this Villain, you would also detach one of their Allies making the Horde weaker.


hmm ok sorry just to clarify... so you always flip the net damage, in your example 3 cards. But regardless of how much damage (whether 1 or 10), you always only remove 1 ally card from the horde. Is that correct?


Exactly
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