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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Tie defender based list for reigionals... rss

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Richard Spruce
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Thinking about running this list....


Maarek Stele (36) - TIE Defender
TIE/x7 (-2), Stealth Device (3)

"Omega Leader" (29) - TIE/FO Fighter
Juke (2), Comm Relay (3), Stealth Device (3)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (35) - TIE Defender
Adaptability (0), TIE/x7 (-2), Stealth Device (3)

Played it against a stresshog/b-wing tactician list tonight and it did pretty well. The tie/x7 titles don't care about stress - so the stealth divides really help keep the defenders alive as long as they don't slow down!
Glaive having adaptability means he can shoot before maarek meaning his ability triggers more often.

Wondered if anyone had any tweaks to the list?



 
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thespaceinvader -
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The main thing I'd say is 'why take a Glaive when you can have Ryad?'

Unless you're expecting to see a lot of Brobots, the difference between PS5 and PS6 is almost nothing, and Ryad's ability more than makes up for it. Doubly so when you have Adaptability as well.

The other thing is 'why does Maarek have a stealth device but no EPT?' EPTs are way better. Give the guy some punch. Or at least adaptability.
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Richard Spruce
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Good idea! I can take ryad and give her adaptability to make her PS 6
I can then give maarek adaptability too and make him PS 6 too to make sure he still attacks last ( and therefore have a better chance to inflict a crit). Sacrifice 1 middle of the range pilot skill for ryads flexibilty.

i found the stealth devices with the tie X7 title on the defenders to be really hard to hit. 4 dice, with an evade really hard to break down, especially if there;s a focus token there (which i tend to keep for defence until mid game) - the game I played last night had me winning without either defender taking a hit....
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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Maarek's ability isn't worthwhile unless you have a way to get crits more often than once every 2 to 3 attacks, such as Calculation, Mangler Cannon or Palpatine.

If you drop Stealth Device from one ship then you can take Calculation and VI for two ships at PS7 (improving Ryad's ability). (Or give up Juke and have everyone at PS7.)
 
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Richard Spruce
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I only took maarek cos I had a point spare - I could drop him to a glaive squad pilot and save that point if it is better spent elsewhere....?
 
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Will Morgan
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Why not Vessery instead of Maarek? you should almost always have a TL on someone thanks to OL.

Juke is nice on the fast moving defenders - lots of options open to you.

Colonel Vessery (35)
Veteran Instincts (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

Countess Ryad (34)
Juke (2)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 94

Leaving you 6 points to spread around as desired. For my money I'd probably replace OL with the Inquisitor or maybe a light Vader or Juno? A Tie Bomber Shuttle? Plenty of options in the 32 point range.

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)
 
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Richard Spruce
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I like the idea of juke on the defenders - I'd never considered that before! Thank you!

What about this then?


Countess Ryad (37) - TIE Defender
Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2), Stealth Device (3)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (37) - TIE Defender
Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2), Stealth Device (3)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (26) - TIE Bomber
Deadeye (1), Concussion Missiles (4), Extra Munitions (2), Guidance Chips (0)

Should be able to finish off one of those pesky u-boats before they can fire right?
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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Try Crack Shot and Long Range Sensors on the bomber; focus is slightly better than Chimps and Crack Shot will probably give you an extra damage (or you can downgrade the bomber to one without an EPT). The decent chance of keeping your focus for defence is also important.

Homing Missiles are slightly better than Concussion Missiles in either configuration, even if you don't expect evade tokens on your victims.


Expected 0+ 1+ 2+ 3+ 4
Concussion GC (3.496094) 1.000000 1.000000 0.996094 0.906250 0.593750
Concussion LRS (3.683594) 1.000000 1.000000 0.996094 0.949219 0.738281
Homing GC (3.683594) 1.000000 1.000000 0.996094 0.949219 0.738281
Homing LRS (3.750000) 1.000000 0.999985 0.999069 0.978470 0.772476


I'm not including the effects of crits, which would increase the expected damage of Homing Missiles LRS more than anything else if shot against hull.
 
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Richard Spruce
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Forgive my denseness but what do the numbers along to top of the chart mean (0+, 1+ etc).

Also why do concussion missiles give less hits than homing missiles? I can see how LRS (target lock with a focus) is more efficient than guidance chips (cos you've used the focus to fire then with deadeye) but can't see how the two missiles give different results when both using LRS. They both roll 4 dice, both have target lock and focus - why do homing homing missiles hit more?

 
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JH
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The numbers along the top are for the number of hits; below is the probability of getting that number of hits, I believe. You will always have a chance of zero or more hits, so that's why 0+ is there, and the result is 1.0.

With Concussion Missiles and Guidance Chips you can change 2 non-hit results to a hit, but you spend the target lock to fire. With Homing Missiles you don't spend the target lock to fire them, only the card, so you can reroll any misses with the target lock.
 
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JH
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I've been tinkering with variants of this list. Wampa shoots before Scourge in hopes of scoring a damage card to increase Scourge's attack dice. Tomax passes Focus tokens and saps defense. Ryad gets behind and takes a shot after everyone else, hopefully after all the target's Focus tokens have been spent so Juke can do its thing. Could drop Tomax for two other TIEs.


100 points

Countess Ryad (37)
TIE Defender (34), Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2), Stealth Device (3)

Tomax Bren (30)
TIE Bomber (24), TIE Shuttle (0), Crack Shot (1), Fleet Officer (3), Agent Kallus (2)

“Scourge” (19)
TIE Fighter (17), Swarm Tactics (2)

“Wampa” (14)
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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JH is correct, except that Concussion Missiles and Guidance Chips will only modify one non-hit result if you don't roll any blanks. Thus the 0.996094 in 2+ -- if you roll all focus results then you will only get one hit.

What if you have high PS and plan to get a TL the turn you attack, relying on chimps to modify dice?

Concussion (3.496094) 1.000000 1.000000 0.996094 0.906250 0.593750
Homing (3.683594) 1.000000 1.000000 0.996094 0.949219 0.738281


This option also keeps your EPT slot free. Downside is that you aren't going to have focus for defence.

One possibility for an EPT slot with LRS is Rage. You can pretty much guarantee 4 hits with Concussion Missiles and make a good go of things with Plasma Torpedoes or Assault Missiles (same odds, different ways of getting extra damage). Each missile gets a pair of lines, the first one assuming that you are willing to spend your focus token. I don't include the option of rerolling focus results and then deciding to spend a focus token anyway.

Expected 0+ 1+ 2+ 3+ 4
Concussion (3.975830) 1.000000 1.000000 0.999939 0.998657 0.977234
Concussion (3.449524) 1.000000 0.999939 0.987915 0.907471 0.554199
Proton Torps (3.747070) 1.000000 0.999939 0.998657 0.977234 0.771240
Proton Torps (3.449524) 1.000000 0.999939 0.987915 0.907471 0.554199
Plasma/Assault (3.747070) 1.000000 0.999939 0.998657 0.977234 0.771240
Plasma/Assault (2.968750) 1.000000 0.992188 0.937500 0.726562 0.312500
 
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Richard Spruce
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Thank you very much for all your advice. I hadn't noticed that homing missiles lets you keep your target lock!

Think I'll go for LRS, Homing missiles (and then might as well take adaptability too to push to PS 6) on the bomber. While rage is good for that alpha strike its really going to be hard to get that second shot off before the bomber dies with two stress tokens holding him back.
Deadeye with concussion missiles is a little more forgiving if you mess up your movement and the ship you target locked in round one doesn't fly to where you are expecting but I think i'm willing to risk that for a more impressive strike.


 
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Will Morgan
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So - how did it go? Did you have a chance to try it yet?
 
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Richard Spruce
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Tried it last night in another practice match (against two y-wings with TLTs and fully kitted out Corran Horn).
The defenders were again really strong, so hard for the opponent to hit (especially with the TLTs - 4 defence dice with an evade and a focus is really hard for a TLT to go through twice - on more that one occasion the y-wings would use their focus to get three hits, I would roll two evades, use the evade token and then the y-wing would only roll one hit for the second attack which again was easily evaded). Range 1 they pack a punch and those white k-turns are amazing.
The bomber worked well. First salvo of missiles gave 4 hits to one of the y-wings with a target lock and a focus and it managed to get its second salvo off with just a target lock before Corran double tapped and blew him up. I figure if the missiles are fired twice in the game then he's worth the points.
Pretty pleased with the squad overall - not going to change anything - regionals are on the 30th so we'll see how we do then!

 
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Richard Spruce
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Update -

Regionals were yesterday - a fun day out, 49 players so 6 rounds of Swiss.

I placed 23 with 3 wins and 3 losses.

Round 1 against the ghost and super dash. Won 100-26 with only the bomber being destroyed.

Round 2 against Carnor Jax, echo and omega leader. Went to time and lost 74-60. Both defenders destroyed with the bomber finally able to unleash its missiles destroying Jax in the last turn. Jax was critical in leading to the destruction of both defenders, effectively stripping them of their defence. This score flatters me, I was out played and deserved to be beaten.

Round 3 won against Captain oincan and whisper won 100-26. Took the decimater out pretty quickly in return for the bomber and whisper eventually died thanks to a bump on one defender leaving the other to mop up.

Round 4 against 4 y-wings including a stress hog in combination with other turrets. Won 100-26 again loosing the bomber. Y-wings just couldn't punch through the defenders defence and juke was deadly against them.


Round 5 against ig88B and ig88c. lost 100-0 I got Completely pulverised. Only landed 1 hit on each. They had initiative and meant that I had to spend my tokens to stop getting hit but then had woefully ineffective attacks. The ig88s were front to back, preventing my k-turns too.

Round 6 against double decimaters, the rear admiral and oincan. Lost 100-74
Destroyed oincan, lost one defender and the bomber and got a loose stabiliser crit on the remaining double stressed defender (debris cloud and rebel captive). Meant I was never going to clear the crit so had to rely on my evade for defender. I got the second down to 6 hull before succumbing.

Overall the defenders were awesome. So hard to kill and did some decent damage. I think the bomber was a weak spot as it only once got to use extra munitions before being destroyed. Good fun though, thanks to everyone I played!
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Will Morgan
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Did you find the Stealth Device to be very valuable?

I'm a bit torn between Stealth Device vs Hull Upgrade vs just taking those points and getting a third true ace (or possibly moving up to Ryad with PTL and Vessery and maybe OL)

I wonder if Vessery/Ryad Palpatine would be worth trying... seems like fun also.
 
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JH
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I played a Ryad list with SD a couple weeks ago in casual matches, and both games I lost it early, then she just kept dodging everything else with evade tokens and focused defense rolls.
 
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Will Morgan
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That is my concern with Stealth Device...

I wonder if something like this would just be better:

Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35
Juke 2
Hull Upgrade 3
TIE/x7 -2
Ship Total: 38

Countess Ryad — TIE Defender 34
Push the Limit 3
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II 1
TIE/x7 -2
Ship Total: 36

"Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter 21
Juke 2
Comm Relay 3
Ship Total: 26
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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Even if you lose the Stealth Device on the first shot, there is a 5/8 chance that it was as good as a Shield Upgrade (3/8 if you failed to focus, which may explain why you were hit). Since you will have an evade token from the title, you can expect to shrug off an average of 3.5 hits in the first attack. A Homing Missile combined with 4-Lom can ruin your whole day, but with most attacks it will take 2 to 3 good shots in one round to remove the Stealth Device. The more green dice and tokens you've got, the better an investment the Stealth Device is; Ryad and PTL interceptor-class ships get the most benefit.
 
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Richard Spruce
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I did find the stealth device to be very useful. On more than one occasion the defenders just shrugged off the attacks - I did favour keeping the focus token for defence though and only really started spending it for attack once the stealth device had gone.
 
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