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Subject: Is Churchill better than Twilight Struggle? rss

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MS-06 Zaku II
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I own TS and love it, but I am on the fence that I should also get Churchill (which is $$$)...

Any thought?

Thx
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Barry Miller
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You can help us help you by telling us why you're on the fence. Then we have something to work with. Otherwise the scope of possible replies is too wide.

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Hawkeye
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ah3Dog wrote:
I own TS and love it, but I am on the fence that I should also get Churchill (which is $$$)...

Any thought?

Thx


"Better" is completely subjective but I have a strong suspicion that if you love Twilight Struggle you will be glad you got Churchill.
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joe dagostino
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They are quite different games. I own and enjoy both.

TS is card driven with many places of possible advantage and multiple ways to process those cards in a head to head struggle. But it is simple in that the influence points change and it plays out on the global map.

Winston uses cards to influence issues in a series of conferences where there are consequences on the global map between the three antagonists. The card play is simpler and has consequences on the global map all of which results in VP being awarded. There are several layers of abstraction from the conference to the various fronts to the atomic bomb development and political control of the various countries on the map. The three way play in itself, even with the other players being abstracted, is quite different than a head to head conflict.

I hope you enjoy your decision whether you buy or not.
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Arnaldo Horta Jr
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Churchill is supposed to be reprinted later this year so it won't be so expensive soon.
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Aaron Cinzori
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If you have 2 players, Twilight Struggle is better. If you have 3 players, Churchill is better.
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Dave Rubin
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Are apples better than oranges?
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Barry Miller
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WonderCinz wrote:
If you have 2 players, Twilight Struggle is better. If you have 3 players, Churchill is better.

Except that TS can't possibly be compared to Churchill if you have 3 players as TS is a 2 player game, of course. So any comparisons that the OP might be looking for have to be made independent of player count. Though, it would be fair to compare the two games as a 2 player experience, which is probably what you were getting at?

This is why, IMHO, we need more info from the OP as to specifically why he's on the fence. Then we'll have something we can provide input on.

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David
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Two different games entirely, each brilliant in its own right.
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You won't be buying too many games if your criteria is "is this better than twilight struggle"
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dirubin wrote:
Are apples better than oranges?


No. Fruit sucks.
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Bob Gibson
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My take is that TS is the best board game! I love it! There are also a few other games that I'd always prefer over Churchill, such as Fire in the Lake and Empire of the Sun. Don't get me wrong, Churchill's interesting, but if I hadn't already purchased it when it first came out I wouldn't buy it now.
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Doug Buel
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bgm1961 wrote:
WonderCinz wrote:
If you have 2 players, Twilight Struggle is better. If you have 3 players, Churchill is better.

Except that TS can't possibly be compared to Churchill if you have 3 players as TS is a 2 player game, of course.

That doesn't make any sense. If you have three players, it's vitally important to compare TS with Churchill, because one of the players will have to just watch if you choose TS, while that's not true with Churchill.
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Barry Miller
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dbuel wrote:
bgm1961 wrote:
WonderCinz wrote:
If you have 2 players, Twilight Struggle is better. If you have 3 players, Churchill is better.

Except that TS can't possibly be compared to Churchill if you have 3 players as TS is a 2 player game, of course.

That doesn't make any sense. If you have three players, it's vitally important to compare TS with Churchill, because one of the players will have to just watch if you choose TS, while that's not true with Churchill.

Well now that doesn't make any sense, because if you have three players then you wouldn't even consider playing Twilight Struggle, would you? Or am I missing something?

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Bob Gibson
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Then, with my group, I'd recommend a COIN series game such as 'Fire in the Lake' over 'Churchill'. I like both, but Churchill is not the highest on my list.
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Clyde W
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ah3Dog wrote:
I own TS and love it, but I am on the fence that I should also get Churchill (which is $$$)...

Any thought?

Thx
Short answer: no. But it is 3p.
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Jeff K
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Yeah,m this thread is all over the map, probably as a result of the unfocused question. But...

I'll assume that you wish for a game like TS, and perhaps are under the mistaken impression Churchill is like TS. It is not, in any way.

I'd second he recommendation for a COIN game. That's going to have more overlap for TS players. And it supports multiple players, so they are a good choice.

Churchill is quite simply an unique game. There is nothing really to compare it with. So the "I like X, will I like Churchill?" question is not applicable to the game. It is also a game that you either really like or really dislike, it seems. So that increases the risk for you. It would really be best to try before you buy, but that may be difficult for that title. Given the unknowns, I'd probably recommend that you steer clear of it.

However, one thing I can say about it, is that it is an outstanding game. If you enjoy it, it will have your group buzzing and talking about it for a long time. I've rarely had a game generate that much table discussion after the game as Churchill.
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Oliver Ludwig

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churchill seems to be to streamlined for my taste. f.ex it seems already clear that the allies will land at sicily at one point, while in reality sardinia, or no such operation at all was also discussed.
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Muramasa84 wrote:
churchill seems to be to streamlined for my taste. f.ex it seems already clear that the allies will land at sicily at one point, while in reality sardinia, or no such operation at all was also discussed.


The game is at a much higher scale than that - the heads of government are worried about prioritizing theaters, not making operational intra-theater decisions like whether to land on Sardinia vs. Sicily.

But whether you like that is a matter of taste, ultimately.
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ah3Dog wrote:
I own TS and love it, but I am on the fence that I should also get Churchill (which is $$$)...

Any thought?

Thx


Yes. And especially if you’d like to play solo.
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Eric Guttag
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TS and Churchill are the same/similar in being geopolitical and card-driven, but are otherwise very different games. The 2 versus 3 players makes the games very different. Negotiations and deals are permitted in the latter, but not in the former. TS is a "head-to-head" contest, while Churchill requires you to manage 2 opponents who may also be allies at various points in the game. The "winning" criteria are very different. Both TS and Churchill have an abstracted military component, but in Churchill, the military component is much more present. Again, very different games.
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dbuel wrote:
bgm1961 wrote:
WonderCinz wrote:
If you have 2 players, Twilight Struggle is better. If you have 3 players, Churchill is better.

Except that TS can't possibly be compared to Churchill if you have 3 players as TS is a 2 player game, of course.

That doesn't make any sense. If you have three players, it's vitally important to compare TS with Churchill, because one of the players will have to just watch if you choose TS, while that's not true with Churchill.


He could be the one fetching you beer when you get thirsty....or maybe go pick up that pizza...
 
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Bob.Gibson wrote:
Then, with my group, I'd recommend a COIN series game such as 'Fire in the Lake' over 'Churchill'. I like both, but Churchill is not the highest on my list.


Only playing the intro game...i.e. ENDGAME

I'm thinking points gained during the endgame are simply roll based.
Only certain topics will ever get picked in the debating phase.

It was kinda fun to play as the game is...

But the debate is almost like an AUCTION phase and the Theatre map is a Place counters and roll well phase...

I like auction phases and dice rolling, but for 5 hours??
 
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