Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Cosmic Encounter» Forums » Rules

Subject: Wild Reborn and Wild Masochist rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Vytautas Kirstukas
Lithuania
Vilnius
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Quote:
Reborn Wild: During any regroup phase, if the offense retrieves a ship from the warp, you may draw a card from the deck.


Quote:
Masochist Wild: During any regroup phase, you may choose a player other than the offense. That player retrieves a ship from the warp instead of the offense. You may not use this flare if the offense{'s ships are all in the warp, captured, or removed from the game} would then be unable to place a ship in the hyperspace gate.



Hi,

Situation which happened to us:

1. Offense tries to retrieve ship from the warp during Regroup.
2. Someone uses Reborn Wild and then being card zapped.
3. Someone else tries to use Masochist Wild, but person that used Reborn Wild says, you can't do that, because offense if already taking his ship from the warp and use of Masochist Wild is too late. Is it correct?

Also we want to figure out another situation:
1. Offense tries to retrieve ship from the warp during Regroup.
2. Someone uses Masochist Wild.
3. Someone else wants to use Reborn Wild. Is it valid to use it? Because in Masochist Wild stated, that the other player instead of offense retrieves the ship from warp. While Reborn Wild states, that "if the offense retrieves a ship from the warp".
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darian Tucker
United States
New Smyrna Beach
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Fly, Eagles, fly!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kirstone wrote:
Quote:
Reborn Wild: During any regroup phase, if the offense retrieves a ship from the warp, you may draw a card from the deck.


Quote:
Masochist Wild: During any regroup phase, you may choose a player other than the offense. That player retrieves a ship from the warp instead of the offense. You may not use this flare if the offense{'s ships are all in the warp, captured, or removed from the game} would then be unable to place a ship in the hyperspace gate.



Hi,

Situation which happened to us:

1. Offense tries to retrieve ship from the warp during Regroup.
2. Someone uses Reborn Wild and then being card zapped.
3. Someone else tries to use Masochist Wild, but person that used Reborn Wild says, you can't do that, because offense if already taking his ship from the warp and use of Masochist Wild is too late. Is it correct?

Also we want to figure out another situation:
1. Offense tries to retrieve ship from the warp during Regroup.
2. Someone uses Masochist Wild.
3. Someone else wants to use Reborn Wild. Is it valid to use it? Because in Masochist Wild stated, that the other player instead of offense retrieves the ship from warp. While Reborn Wild states, that "if the offense retrieves a ship from the warp".


In your first scenario, that's correct. If the offense has already retrieved his ship from the warp, it's too late for the Wild Masochist to go off, especially if Wild Reborn was already played and zapped. I might allow unwinding the offense retrieving his ship if that was the only effect that had occurred and he went too fast for anyone to react, but once Wild Reborn had been played, you would now have to unwind two effects and I would say it's definitely too late.

For your second scenario, the card is clear. If the offense does not retrieve a ship, Wild Reborn cannot be played. This is one of those fun edge cases where the flare cannot be played (other than the offense having no ships in the warp to regroup).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would agree with Cyrus. Wild Masochist should be played before the offense retrieves a ship. As written, it is not a response to the offense's retrieval. That may or may not have been the design intent, but the card gives none of the usual indications that it is a response.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
↓ first, last name ↓
United States
Fountain Valley
California
flag msg tools
Why is there no Word Games Forum or Subdomain?
badge
There should be a Word Games Subdomain, or at least a Word Games Forum!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kirstone wrote:
1. Offense tries to retrieve ship from the warp during Regroup.
2. Someone uses Reborn Wild and then being card zapped.
3. Someone else tries to use Masochist Wild, but person that used Reborn Wild says, you can't do that, because offense if already taking his ship from the warp and use of Masochist Wild is too late. Is it correct?

Why would it be too late? Since the Wild Reborn isn't in effect, it's not really relevant. It's still the Regroup Phase. One attempt to do something in the Regroup Phase failed. That doesn't prohibit others from doing something in the same phase. This isn't a speed game. You can't just grab your ship out of the warp as fast as you can and they say, "Ha ha, I already got my ship, so it's too late for you to play Wild Masochist."

Quote:
Also we want to figure out another situation:
1. Offense tries to retrieve ship from the warp during Regroup.
2. Someone uses Masochist Wild.
3. Someone else wants to use Reborn Wild. Is it valid to use it? Because in Masochist Wild stated, that the other player instead of offense retrieves the ship from warp. While Reborn Wild states, that "if the offense retrieves a ship from the warp".

I'd have to say no. The Wild Reborn specifically refers to the offense retrieving a ship, which isn't happening.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darian Tucker
United States
New Smyrna Beach
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Fly, Eagles, fly!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Phil Fleischmann wrote:
Kirstone wrote:
1. Offense tries to retrieve ship from the warp during Regroup.
2. Someone uses Reborn Wild and then being card zapped.
3. Someone else tries to use Masochist Wild, but person that used Reborn Wild says, you can't do that, because offense if already taking his ship from the warp and use of Masochist Wild is too late. Is it correct?

Why would it be too late? Since the Wild Reborn isn't in effect, it's not really relevant. It's still the Regroup Phase. One attempt to do something in the Regroup Phase failed. That doesn't prohibit others from doing something in the same phase. This isn't a speed game. You can't just grab your ship out of the warp as fast as you can and they say, "Ha ha, I already got my ship, so it's too late for you to play Wild Masochist."


This would be too late. The offense has already retrieved a ship and an effect was played in response to that which ended up being zapped. If you then try to say that Wild Masochist can be played, you should allow the rewinding of Wild Reborn and Card Zap in addition to the ship retrieval, because Wild Reborn can't be played in response to Wild Masochist's effect. The player holding Wild Masochist should speak up sooner next time if he wants to play his card, and if both were played at the same time, you would refer to the timing rule to see who gets priority.

As I already alluded to, if someone tries to grab their ship really quickly, I wouldn't let that deter someone from playing Wild Masochist as long as they speak up in a reasonable timeframe. But it's way too late once another effect which uses the ship retrieval as a basis for being played has occurred, regardless of if it was zapped or not.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Edit: Ninja'd by Cyrus.


Phil Fleischmann wrote:
Why would it be too late? Since the Wild Reborn isn't in effect, it's not really relevant. It's still the Regroup Phase. One attempt to do something in the Regroup Phase failed. That doesn't prohibit others from doing something in the same phase. This isn't a speed game. You can't just grab your ship out of the warp as fast as you can and they say, "Ha ha, I already got my ship, so it's too late for you to play Wild Masochist."

It seems you're missing the point. Nobody is saying that one failed action prohibits another action from being declared.

It's all about the timing. The fact that Wild Reborn was even playable indicates that the action of the offense retrieving a ship has already been declared. That is what makes it too late to play Wild Masochist, because Wild Masochist is not a response. You have to play it before the retrieval is in progress.

Players should of course allow the usual "back up a sec" if things were moving a bit too quickly for the player to announce his card play. But if there was time for the other flare to be declared and canceled, then we are clearly already too far along.

If the guy wanted to play his flare, it could have gone like this:

Offense: "Okay, second encounter, I'm grabbing a ship."
WR Guy: "I'm getting a card with Wild Reborn."
WM Guy: "Hold on a second guys. I have a flare to play at the start of the regroup phase before the offense gets his ship."

In other words, don't wait until after a response to the retrieval has been declared and canceled; that's too late. Just point out that you have an effect to play whose timing needs to precede the retrieval.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vytautas Kirstukas
Lithuania
Vilnius
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Thank you guys for your time and for the answers. Now it's 100% clear, what must be done in these situations
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
↓ first, last name ↓
United States
Fountain Valley
California
flag msg tools
Why is there no Word Games Forum or Subdomain?
badge
There should be a Word Games Subdomain, or at least a Word Games Forum!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bill Martinson wrote:
If the guy wanted to play his flare, it could have gone like this:

Offense: "Okay, second encounter, I'm grabbing a ship."
WR Guy: "I'm getting a card with Wild Reborn."
WM Guy: "Hold on a second guys. I have a flare to play at the start of the regroup phase before the offense gets his ship."

That's fair enough, but what if it's something like this:

Offense: "Okay, second encounter, I'm grabbing a ship."
WM Guy: "Say, WR Guy, are you going to play your Wild Reborn? Because If you are, then I won't play my Wild Masochist, which would prevent you from playing Wild Reborn. If you're not going to play Wild Reborn, then I want to play Wild Masochist."
WR Guy: "Yes, I want to play Wild Reborn."
Sombody: "Zap! on the Wild Reborn."
WM Guy: "Since Wild Reborn did not take effect, there should be no problem playing my Wild Masochist. The game state has not been changed in any way that would affect or be affected by the play of the Wild Masochist."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darian Tucker
United States
New Smyrna Beach
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Fly, Eagles, fly!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Phil Fleischmann wrote:
Bill Martinson wrote:
If the guy wanted to play his flare, it could have gone like this:

Offense: "Okay, second encounter, I'm grabbing a ship."
WR Guy: "I'm getting a card with Wild Reborn."
WM Guy: "Hold on a second guys. I have a flare to play at the start of the regroup phase before the offense gets his ship."

That's fair enough, but what if it's something like this:

Offense: "Okay, second encounter, I'm grabbing a ship."
WM Guy: "Say, WR Guy, are you going to play your Wild Reborn? Because If you are, then I won't play my Wild Masochist, which would prevent you from playing Wild Reborn. If you're not going to play Wild Reborn, then I want to play Wild Masochist."
WR Guy: "Yes, I want to play Wild Reborn."
Sombody: "Zap! on the Wild Reborn."
WM Guy: "Since Wild Reborn did not take effect, there should be no problem playing my Wild Masochist. The game state has not been changed in any way that would affect or be affected by the play of the Wild Masochist."


Damn. More than 24 hours. Looks like I owe you $10, Bill.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.