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Subject: Evil Dead 2 - Red Flags Everywhere! rss

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Jason Brown
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So, the Evil Dead 2 board game is up on Kickstarter and on it's way to mega numbers. The only thing is, I can't figure out why any informed gamer would pledge this. The red flags are through the roof.

1. Creator - 0 pledged, 0 backed. This is a minis-heavy game and the creator is a comic book publisher with zero experience making board games. November ship date? Not a chance.

2. Gameplay - No information whatsoever on the mechanics of the game. Is it action point based? Roll & move? Dice based? Hand management? CDG? Story elements?

3. Rules - None posted, no ETA.

4. Minis - None posted, only renders.

5. Campaign - More than $20K past the goal and no SGs, no comments, no updates, no reviews, no gameplay.

6. No BGG entry - Really?

Seriously, WHY is anyone throwing money at this???
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C Bazler
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Yeah, I've got to agree. It's sketchy. All of the "reviews" are just news announcements and people saying they want it.

The only information the reviews convey is: "An 'Evil Dead 2' card game is coming—and it looks super groovy"

A card game? Why the minis then?
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maf man
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
Seriously, WHY is anyone throwing money at this???

Because there are just a TON of people out there with disposable income that get easily swept up by good sounding concepts. My own personal memorable kickstarter was the breath underwater thingie, one of my friends thought that it was the greatest idea ever....dumbass art student thinking a picture means anything
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Christopher Wionzek
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
Seriously, WHY is anyone throwing money at this???


Probably (rather much like Ghostbusters, or Dark Souls) because they like the property, and don't play board games.
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Gláucio Reis
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cbazler wrote:
The only information the reviews convey is: "An 'Evil Dead 2' card game is coming—and it looks super groovy"

A card game? Why the minis then?

First sentence on the KS page: "Evil Dead 2: The Official Board Game is a tile and miniature based survival horror game for 2-6 Players based on the classic movie."
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C Bazler
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GSReis wrote:
cbazler wrote:
The only information the reviews convey is: "An 'Evil Dead 2' card game is coming—and it looks super groovy"

A card game? Why the minis then?

First sentence on the KS page: "Evil Dead 2: The Official Board Game is a tile and miniature based survival horror game for 2-6 Players based on the classic movie."


Right. Which proves the "reviewer" they quoted on the first page knew nothing at all about the game.
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Gláucio Reis
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cbazler wrote:
Right. Which proves the "reviewer" they quoted on the first page knew nothing at all about the game.

That is just one of several quotes they pulled from the press. Nowhere it is stated that it's a review. You asked why a card game needs miniatures and I just pointed out that it's obviously not a card game. It's also obvious that no-one knows much about the game yet, I'm not arguing that.
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C Bazler
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Leave it to you, GS, to turn an agreement into an argument.
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Nate
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Last line of the intro video is "We'll be taking your money now."

shake
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Viper .
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Isn't it odd how BGG allows Kickstarter-criticizing threads but bans Kickstarter-promoting threads?

Interesting.
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Viper5121 wrote:
Isn't it odd how BGG allows Kickstarter-criticizing threads but bans Kickstarter-promoting threads?

Interesting.


Bad Kickstart projects are bad for the industry. There's a vested interest in calling them out.
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Dave Lartigue
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Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the Official Nerd Flag



You're wondering why a group that defines itself by constant consumption is not being careful about its purchases? Why do birds fly?
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maf man
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Viper5121 wrote:
Isn't it odd how BGG allows Kickstarter-criticizing threads but bans Kickstarter-promoting threads?

Interesting.

na, your missing the point, we don't want to click threads that end up being ads. There are plenty of kickstarter game related threads that go up, stay up, and are worthwhile and they are ether in the press release forum or they are actually about something like some design aspect and are in there respective topic with a strong intent to focus on not simply promoting their game.
And like mentioned before me, we should all be out trying to stop bad games from tainting the market. Is an evil dead game a bad idea? no. Is an evil dead game with no effort or thought given a bad idea? yes.
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Andreas Krüger
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Viper5121 wrote:
Isn't it odd how BGG allows Kickstarter-criticizing threads but bans Kickstarter-promoting threads?

Interesting.


As soon as a larger number of people is ready to pay Kickstarter criticizing advertising, this policy will change for sure.
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jumbit
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You have to understand...people don't back Kickstarter projects to get the final finished product. The people who complain about stupid Kickstarter projects never understand this. It's about the experience.

When you buy a game from your friendly local game store, you get a brief payoff of fun when you decide to buy the game. That's it! It's all over in an instant. Fifty bucks and all you get is one fleeting moment of enjoyment? What a rip off!

Kickstarter lengthens this enjoyable feeling of purchasing for months. Weekly updates! Stretch goals! Videos! Pre-release reviews! There are all sorts of things to get excited about. And THAT'S what Kickstarter backers are buying. This wonderful feeling of "what's going to come next" that lasts day after day after week after week. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Where else can you get so much enjoyment for your fifty bucks?

And what happens when things go off the rails, as they so often do? You have a free license to not only follow the drama, but to insert yourself. You paid for this privilege! You have been personally cheated! You now have carte blanche to act the victim, something that is usually denied to most of us. You can shake your finger, use shaming words, and in general tell the creator what a bad person she is. So satisfying!

Actually play the games? Who does that? A bunch of geeks, that's who. People who can be safely ignored because they're just going to complain about how poorly-written and contradictory the rulebook is. Who wants to listen to complainers like this? They ruin the good feeling you paid hard-earned money to get.

I used to wonder why Kickstarter was so popular too, until I realized that getting the finished product is the worst thing that happens. Why? The excitement is over. soblue
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Adam Kazimierczak
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Proof there's no such thing as bad press. I see this thread and now I'm tempted to at least look at the kickstarter...
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jumbit
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kaziam wrote:
Proof there's no such thing as bad press. I see this thread and now I'm tempted to at least look at the kickstarter...


Yeah, the thread starter has obviously never heard of the Streisand Effect. gulp Free publicity on a major boardgaming website? A controversial topic where people are bound to weigh in? You can't buy publicity like that, it is the best kind. I forgot to include that in my Kickstarter explanation above - backers also get to be insiders and relate their experiences to others. That's an important part of backing and being allowed into the tribe.
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Trent DePonte
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People buy games in person at a game store with less information then is available on that KS page so I'm not sure why you're so confused.

But if you really need some sort of reason that it's already 200% funded it probably has something to do with it having miniatures of one of the biggest cult movies of all time.
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Trent DePonte
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kungfugeek wrote:
Viper5121 wrote:
Isn't it odd how BGG allows Kickstarter-criticizing threads but bans Kickstarter-promoting threads?

Interesting.


Bad Kickstart projects are bad for the industry. There's a vested interest in calling them out.


And making a thread about how bad a KS is (when it isn't necessarily bad) seems like a pretty convenient way of dodging the no promotion rule.
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X Topher
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I pledged while there are still Early Bird pledges left. It's an incentive to build momentum. The initial pledge costs me nothing, it's just like Fry waving his money around, but if the campaign doesn't fill out according to expectations you're only a couple clicks away from pulling that money back in to your pocket. (Which I've done, even with the $1 pledge.) It's a way of saying, "hey I'm interested, show me what you've got." They've got 30 days to do that.

The call for "Red Flags" on the first day of the campaign seems to be premature, imo. If Kickstarter was actually used the way it was originally intended, for lone developers/small businesses looking for startup capital, every project would be "red flagged." Our outlook of what to expect has just been twisted with these huge CoolMiniOrNot giga-projects.
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HenningK
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jumbit wrote:
I used to wonder why Kickstarter was so popular too, until I realized that getting the finished product is the worst thing that happens. Why? The excitement is over. soblue


This is the whole Kickstarter phenomenon in a nutshell, and an interesting phenomenon of our times. Anticipation has become more important than the actual item itself. You can see this everywhere:
Casting shows and their participants are only interesting as long as the winner isn't clear. Nobody cares about the idol singer or fashion model once they have won. Before and during concerts, people are more concerned about taking photos and posting them on Facebook than actually experiencing the concert itself. The journey has become more important than the goal.
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Mutton Chops
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gattz wrote:
I pledged while there are still Early Bird pledges left. It's an incentive to build momentum. The initial pledge costs me nothing, it's just like Fry waving his money around, but if the campaign doesn't fill out according to expectations you're only a couple clicks away from pulling that money back in to your pocket. (Which I've done, even with the $1 pledge.) It's a way of saying, "hey I'm interested, show me what you've got." They've got 30 days to do that.


Indeed. Despite it seemingly being not my usual kind of game (it's looking pretty "Ameritrashy/Thematic" at this point), as a long time fan of the Evil Dead movies - not the bone-headed so-called "reboot", of course - I've pledged for this, but I will be keeping a close eye on the campaign, as I have for all the ten or so Kickstarters I've backed over the last two years. If they don't post the rules by a week before it's due to end; if I don't like what I see when I read the rules; if there's any messing about or significant re-jigging of any substantive element of the project; if the stretch goals start to introduce things I think will blow out the delivery date significantly; or if anything else starts to look iffy, then I will cancel. I've done it before on a few occasions.

As far as is possible, I always research those campaigns I pledge, including the track-record of those involved. But backing a Kickstarter is inherently a risky proposition. Kickstarter is not a store, though it seems many people don't realise that. It's a way of getting projects done that might not otherwise come to fruition*. That means, by definition, that there are risks involved that don't exist when one simply buys a production game from a store. It is highly patronising to assume that everyone who's pledged is not aware of this, or is not capable of making the relevant risk assessments before pledging, and smacks of an unwarranted assumption of superiority.

gattz wrote:
The call for "Red Flags" on the first day of the campaign seems to be premature, imo. If Kickstarter was actually used the way it was originally intended, for lone developers/small businesses looking for startup capital, every project would be "red flagged." Our outlook of what to expect has just been twisted with these huge CoolMiniOrNot giga-projects.


I would contend that CMoN is a subsidiary issue to a widespread failure to understand that with Kickstarter one's effectively an investor, albeit a very small-scale one. Your RoI is pretty marginal and, like any investment, you can lose it all - your key benefit is seeing the thing getting made at all. And even the best Research departments of the biggest investment banks make mistakes, or are blind-sided by unexpected events. In my opinion, if one can't afford to lose the money pledged on each and every occasion one does so, one should not be pledging at all.


* At least, it's supposed to be. People like Queen Games do abuse that a bit.
 
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fightcitymayor
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gattz wrote:
The call for "Red Flags" on the first day of the campaign seems to be premature, imo.
But the basic fact remains: This is a trendy IP in search of a game.

In that way, Mr. Brown is correct: This is just a way for some rookie "production house" to make a quick buck exploiting a movie license. It never bodes well to start with the license, then attempt to hype a game around it. But the KS crowd often has incredibly low standards for what they will throw their collective dollars at. (Which gets into Jumbit's correct analysis of KS as "super happy funtime playground" rather than "place to support games you will actually play.")
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G CATT

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Therules are up. Has anyone read them yet? What other game is it like?

Thank you for your time.
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Shaun Morris
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Just for the record, at less than 48 hours into the campaign, we've got 3 updates.

Space Goat was clearly unprepared for launch but as someone else over at the prelaunch Geek List stated, they may have had a contractual requirement due to the licensing to launch by a certain date.

What concerns me most, is the crappy CGI renderings of the minis. It's not like I have to keep my pledge though. I can always drop it if the campaign doesn't improve and I don't feel comfortable with where it's going. I'm at no risk of losing money until 32 days from now, so I'll take an EB and if I do keep it I'll save $10 off the regular pledge and if I drop it, I spent nothing.
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