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Subject: FIghting spirit card rss

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Gregory Barnsley
Australia
Sydney
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May you play more than one of these "fighting spirit" cards in same turn, say one in your round and one in the following round when you are defending?

Do you pay an action point to play a "fighting spirit" card, if played in your defensive round, when it is your initiative round?

Regards,
Mas
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Reinhard S.
Germany
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maxvonme wrote:
May you play more than one of these "fighting spirit" cards in same turn, say one in your round and one in the following round when you are defending?

Do you pay an action point to play a "fighting spirit" card, if played in your defensive round, when it is your initiative round?

Regards,
Mas


Good Question.
I would Play like this.

While it is YOUR Turn, You may
Play a moximum of ONE maneuvre Card at the START of the Turn, for ONE Action.

While it is Your Opponents Turn, You may:
Play a maxium of ONE Fighting Spirit Crad (only this one), DURING the opponents Turn, and it does NOT COST an Action.

The rules are not 100% Clear here, even the revised german rules (File section) which are otherwise VERY good. But The Fighting Spirit Card is exceptional in several ways, so this ruling should be OK. In myopinion it would NOT make sence, when Playing such a Card is forbidden on defence, because some other (or another of this) Card had been played in your active part of this turn. The sence of this Card is to create some uncertainty. So it should be allowed to Play it Independent from wether You played a Card before or not
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Mark Deneeve
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According to the rules no.
You are only allowed to play out one card each round.
So aldough you are allowed to play the fighting spirit card in the defense, you cannot play it if you already played a maneuver card.

Example: the English played out an artillery barage card at the start of the turn at 13:00.
At 13:00 the French Dragoons of 6 charge the Scottish Highlanders of 5 protecting Wellington. The English wants to play a Fighting spirit card in its defense so not to lose Wellington, but the English player cannot as he already played the Artillery barrage card earlier on...

Mark
 
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Reinhard S.
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Nessy1 wrote:

...
Example: the English played out an artillery barage card at the start of the turn at 13:00.
At 13:00 the French Dragoons of 6 charge the Scottish Highlanders of 5 protecting Wellington. The English wants to play a Fighting spirit card in its defense so not to lose Wellington, but the English player cannot as he already played the Artillery barrage card earlier on...

Mark


Hallo,
I get Your point, but wouldn't this ruling mean, that the other way around a Card Play IS POSSIBLE, because after the French round a new Turn/Hour starts...

Adapted Example: the FRENCH played out an artillery barage card at the start of their turn at 13:00.
At 13:30 (New Turn)the BRITITH LIFE GUARDS of 6 charge the POLISH LANCERS of 5 protecting NAPOLEON. The FRENCH wants to play a Fighting spirit card in its defense so not to lose NAPOLEON, AND HE IS ALLOWED TO DO THIS, as his Artillery barrage card earlier on was in a FORMER TURN...


According to this logic this would mean:

A BRITISH player playing a Card in his round, will always LOOSE his ability to Play Fighting Spirit in Defence to counter a French attack in the same turn...

But a FRENCH player playing a Card in his round, will always HAVE this ability to play Fighting Spirit in Defence, because the possible British Attack will just be in another Hour/Turn...

I doubt, that is was intended. How can this problem be solved? What does the designer say?
 
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Mark Deneeve
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Hello Reinhard,

That is a good one and I can see what you mean. But it is logical to me.

12:30 Allies play out an 'Artilery barrage' and blow three of the French pieces away and make 2 moves = 3 actions
12:30 French play out a 'Fighting Spirit' where a Polish Lancer of 5 charges Uxbridge, the Lancer now has a strenth of 6.

Since the Allies already played an action card, they can't defend and Uxbridge with a 5 is lost.

The next scenario:

13:30 The Allied player performs 2 actions (becaus Uxbridge is lost) and is protecting his left flank because the French now that this is the flank that has to be taken.
13:30 The French plays out a 'Maneouver card' and perform 3 movements. In second action he moves his Young guard of 4 and takes one area of the left flank.
With last action, he moves out his Polish lancer of 5 and attacks the Allies infantry protecting the left flank. The Allied plays out his 'Fighting spirit' card to give his infatry, a Scottish Highlander, a 6. The Polish Lancer is destroyed.

And the round is finished because the French player was not allowed to play a 'Fighting Spirit' card because he already played a 'Manoeuver card'.

Looks clear to me, no?

Mark
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Reinhard S.
Germany
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Nessy1 wrote:
Hello Reinhard,

That is a good one and I can see what you mean. But it is logical to me.

12:30 Allies play out an 'Artilery barrage' and blow three of the French pieces away and make 2 moves = 3 actions
12:30 French play out a 'Fighting Spirit' where a Polish Lancer of 5 charges Uxbridge, the Lancer now has a strenth of 6.

Since the Allies already played an action card, they can't defend and Uxbridge with a 5 is lost.

The next scenario:

13:30 The Allied player performs 2 actions (becaus Uxbridge is lost) and is protecting his left flank because the French now that this is the flank that has to be taken.
13:30 The French plays out a 'Maneouver card' and perform 3 movements. In second action he moves his Young guard of 4 and takes one area of the left flank.
With last action, he moves out his Polish lancer of 5 and attacks the Allies infantry protecting the left flank. The Allied plays out his 'Fighting spirit' card to give his infatry, a Scottish Highlander, a 6. The Polish Lancer is destroyed.

And the round is finished because the French player was not allowed to play a 'Fighting Spirit' card because he already played a 'Manoeuver card'.

Looks clear to me, no?

Mark


Well, You are perfectly right, but that was NOT the direction of my question. If this rule is correct as you state - and it seems very clear - this will hamper Card-Play by the Allied Player in a way, the French does not suffer...

In Your last Example, The French could not Play a "Fighting Spirit" Card offensively, because he had allready used a Maneuvre Card to move 3 Units.
But he would have NO Problem to Play "Fighting Spirit" defensively in the oncoming Allied Turn against an Allied assault, (because that is the 14:00 h Turn, First/Allied half)

The Thing I wanted to emphasize is the following:

An Allied Player will always have to be carefull/reluctant to Play a Card in his part of the Turn, because in the following French part of the Turn, he (the Allied Player) will not be allowed to Play "Fighting Spirit" omn defence.

The French Player on the contrary has no such Problems.
If HE (the french Player) Plays a Maneuvre card in his part of the Turn, the next possible ASttack by the allied will be in the NEXT Turn (next 30 min) and therefore he will always be able to Play Fighting Spiriti in a defensive way.

I do not know , if this Advantage for the French Player was intended...
 
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Jason St.Just
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Hi Reinhard

To be honest, I don't see any special advantage for the French nor any disadvantage for the Allies.

Both players must be careful when they play out their cards - not just the Allies. If the French play out their 'Fighting Spirit' card on the defensive in the next turn...they will not be able to play out any card anymore when their turn comes along...so there is no difference.

On the other side: the Allied player goes first every round...that can be an advantage too...

Don't worry: although the game is unbalanced, there is a perfect balance.

Kind regards,
Jason St.Just

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Reinhard S.
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Chronos1 wrote:
Hi Reinhard

To be honest, I don't see any special advantage for the French nor any disadvantage for the Allies.

...


Although there are not many occaisons this will apply in a Game (there are only 3 Cards "Fighting Strength") there IS A DIFFERENCE in my opinion.
Good to hear from the Designer himself, that it obviously has no Impact on the game... but hear my Argument:

The "Fighting Spirit Card" is unique, because it is the only Card playable not only in Your Round (Offensively) but also in the Opponent's Round (Defensively).

To be able to Play that Card defensively can make attacks for the Opponent dangerous.
To be safe fom such defensive Measures is a great relief, and makes attacks easier. - Really no difference? No Impact?

If the Allied Player played a Card (that or any other) in his Round,
the French Player will ALWAYS be safe from facing that Defensive Bonus.

On the Contrary

If the French Player played a Card (that or any other)in his Round,
the Allied Player can NEVER be safe from facing that Defensive Bonus.

Of course - A good Player will take this into account and act accordingly, and - Yes - when the French Player Plays Fighting Spirit defensively he cannot Play another Card in his offensive part of the tur, so there is some balance - but: The Unique Defenseive Playability of the Fighting Spirit Card is something Special..

My personal "Variant Rule" is:
You Can Play a Fighting Spirit Card Defensively in the opponents Round - even when You have played another Strategy Card in Your actibe Round.

Chronos1 wrote:

Don't worry: although the game is unbalanced, there is a perfect balance.

Kind regards,
Jason St.Just

This is a very interesting sentence
 
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Reinhard S.
Germany
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Chronos1 wrote:
Hi Reinhard

...
Both players must be careful when they play out their cards - not just the Allies. If the French play out their 'Fighting Spirit' card on the defensive in the next turn...they will not be able to play out any card anymore when their turn comes along...so there is no difference.

...
Kind regards,
Jason St.Just



hallo Jason,
of course this IS a good Argument, and it is up to the gameplay of the Players to act according to the rules.
To know, that after Card-Play there will be no possibility for a +1 Defense Bonus is just another fact a good Allied Player will have to consider...

Thanks for Your time an thoughts ,

Greetings from winterly Baltic Sea, Reinhard
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