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Scythe» Forums » Rules

Subject: A couple timing things and clarifications rss

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Karen L

Columbus
Ohio
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1. Does the Encouter occur after movement and before bottom row actions?


2. Does combat occur after movement and before bottom row actions?


3. Does your opponent get the benefit from you doing an action if I use a factory card? For example my factory card allows me to pay and upgrade… my opponent has already made it so he enlisted and when I upgrade he receives a coin. Does he get this benefit off my factory card as well?

4. For end game, does the game end immediately or do I complete the action. This happened in our last game… I paid a cost on a factory card to gain a building and popularity, now the building was going to end the game and the symbol is listed first. Do I still get that popularity as I played that action or is it a hard stop when the building is built?


To prestrike questions yes I searched the rule book but still feel unsure especially about 1-3. I'm not always so good with this and the forums frustrated in reading. I really appreciate your help.
 
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Nándor Gáspár
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I'll be short, since these questions was already answered here in the forum.

1-2: Yes.

3: No, because you did a different action from the original upgrade.
(they are very similar, but it's a factory action and not the player action called "upgrade")

4: The game ends immediately every time the end condition is met, but I don't think that the order of the symbols in an action row would matter.
I guess you get both of the two things you payed for, but someone should correct me if I'm mistaken.
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GAF Blizzard
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Regarding #4:

From "Edge Cases" on page 28 I suspect the top row case would behave like the bottom row case.

"If the 6th star comes from taking a bottom-row action, gain the primary benefit, the coins, and the Recruit Ongoing Benefit before placing the star."

Coins never give you a star, and coins are always listed on the action row after the primary benefit (e.g. a structure). Therefore I'd say you finish the action line and then stop (no opponents get recruit benefits).
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Karen L

Columbus
Ohio
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Thanks for the direct responses I had trouble piecing direct answers
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Karen L

Columbus
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I appreciate the input eveyone. Sorry some of it was repetitive
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Patrick and Julia Olmstead
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Regarding #4. Situation is that the Polonia player chooses the Bolster action. Because the Polonia player has built the building already, there are three "sub-rows" in the "Top-Row Actions" on the player mat. The first sub-row requires the Polonia player to pay a coin. The second sub-row allows the player to get power or combat cards. The third sub-row gives a heart (when the building that starts the game covering that space has been built).

The Polonia player pays a coin. The Polonia player chooses to increase her power. By increasing her power, she moves to the top row of the power chart and earns her 6th Star of the game. Does the game end "immediately" (in the middle of her "Top-Row Actions")? Or does she get her heart as well (from the 3rd "sub-row" of the Top-Row Actions?

I looked at Edge Cases. It discusses getting a power on an opponent's turn to earn a 6th star. But, I don't see this precise scenario.

Personally, I think it makes sense to allow the player to get that heart from the third "sub-row." I think that jives with the the first paragraph of Edge Cases on page 28 of the Rules which provides: "If the 6th star comes from taking a bottom-row action, gain the primary benefit, the coins, and the Recruit Ongoing Benefit before placing the star."
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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pjolmstead wrote:
Regarding #4. Situation is that the Polonia player chooses the Bolster action. Because the Polonia player has built the building already, there are three "sub-rows" in the "Top-Row Actions" on the player mat. The first sub-row requires the Polonia player to pay a coin. The second sub-row allows the player to get power or combat cards. The third sub-row gives a heart (when the building that starts the game covering that space has been built).

The Polonia player pays a coin. The Polonia player chooses to increase her power. By increasing her power, she moves to the top row of the power chart and earns her 6th Star of the game. Does the game end "immediately" (in the middle of her "Top-Row Actions")? Or does she get her heart as well (from the 3rd "sub-row" of the Top-Row Actions?

I looked at Edge Cases. It discusses getting a power on an opponent's turn to earn a 6th star. But, I don't see this precise scenario.

Personally, I think it makes sense to allow the player to get that heart from the third "sub-row." I think that jives with the the first paragraph of Edge Cases on page 28 of the Rules which provides: "If the 6th star comes from taking a bottom-row action, gain the primary benefit, the coins, and the Recruit Ongoing Benefit before placing the star."


I'm on a train and so don't have access to the rulebook, but from what I remember, then yes, you get the popularity.
 
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Greg Benson
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Regarding #3: If you are looking for where it says this in the rules, it's on pg. 20 in the "Ongoing Bonus" section. It reads, "Top-row actions or a similar action on a Factory card (see Factory section, page 25) do not count."
 
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Alan
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Regarding #4:

It seems to me like there are a number of questions or points concerning the timing of "immediately" when ending the game. It's actually not "immediately" all of the time.

TOP ROW ACTIONS: Most top row actions are pretty clear for triggering game end (placement of 6th star). Bolster, trade, and produce are straight forward - you get the full benefit, effectively meaning you finish the top row action. This matters for bolster and trade since they may have additional benefits (on a different line of the mat) if the player constructed that building (armory, monument). The only odd ball is move since it can incite multiple combats and/or encounters. Combats are clear - the one that gives a player their 6th star is the final combat, any others are not carried out (the moving player's units retreat to an adjacent hex). According to the rules as written, encounters would not be resolved after the 6th star is placed.

BOTTOM ROW ACTION: This is much less straight forward due to recruit ongoing bonuses. Except for recruit ongoing bonuses, bottom row actions actually follow the same pattern as top row actions (the player finishes the action). Note that in my expression below, the first sentence (for the bottom row paragraph) is an added rule - it doesn't change anything (as far as I'm aware) and it clarifies multiple timing concerns (with one exception as noted).

Assuming the above is correct, a clearer (but much longer) statement for game end might be:



If the game ends by a player placing their 6th star as a result of a top row action, unless it is a move action the player completes the action. If it is a move action, the game ends immediately when the 6th star is placed - any remaining combats and any unresolved encounters are not resolved. For unresolved combats, the active player's units retreat to an adjacent, uncontested hex.

All recruit ongoing bonuses are received after a player completes their bottom row action. If the game ends by a player placing their 6th star as a result of a bottom row action (not a recruit ongoing bonus), the player completes the action and recruit ongoing bonuses are not received (exception: the active player receives their recruit ongoing bonus for that bottom row action - no other player receives a recruit ongoing bonus). If the game ends by a player placing their 6th star as a result of a recruit ongoing bonus, recruit ongoing bonuses are received in clockwise order starting from the active player and the game ends immediately when the 6th star is placed (one or more players may not receive their recruit ongoing bonus). (Note that the active player does not receive a recruit ongoing bonus that they uncovered that action.)
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Patrick and Julia Olmstead
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Alan, I generally agree with what you wrote. However, the Rules provide that if a 6th star is placed during a bottom-row action, then the recruiting bonus for that player IS earned. Here's the language from page 28 of the Rules which provides: "If the 6th star comes from taking a bottom-row action, gain the primary benefit, the coins, and the Recruit Ongoing Benefit before placing the star."

Any OTHER players besides the current player (e.g., the adjacent players) would NOT receive their corresponding recruiting bonuses, because the game ends "immediately" - before they receive their bonuses.
 
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Trevor Taylor
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pjolmstead wrote:
Alan, I generally agree with what you wrote. However, the Rules provide that if a 6th star is placed during a bottom-row action, then the recruiting bonus for that player IS earned. Here's the language from page 28 of the Rules which provides: "If the 6th star comes from taking a bottom-row action, gain the primary benefit, the coins, and the Recruit Ongoing Benefit before placing the star."

Any OTHER players besides the current player (e.g., the adjacent players) would NOT receive their corresponding recruiting bonuses, because the game ends "immediately" - before they receive their bonuses.


He said that exactly...
 
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Karen L

Columbus
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Thanks for the responses, at least my #4. Question has generated a little discussion and it wasn't just me lol
 
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Karen L

Columbus
Ohio
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Thanks a page is always helpful
 
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