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Empires: Age of Discovery» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mint rss

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Chris Shaffer
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Does the bonus from the Mint count in end game scoring?

When using Merchant Ships in a set of Silver or Gold, do they earn $2 from the Mint? Or do only "natural" trade goods earn the bonus?
 
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Robert Danielson
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TheCat wrote:
Does the bonus from the Mint count in end game scoring?

When using Merchant Ships in a set of Silver or Gold, do they earn $2 from the Mint? Or do only "natural" trade goods earn the bonus?


I don't have the text for the mint right in front of me but as I recall that is a capital building that gives $2 for each silver/gold. This is a capital building benefit and does not give trade good income and therefor does not count additionally for end game scoring of trade good income.

Only 'natural' tiles count. Merchant ships do not become a new good they only increase the value of a set.

 
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Chris Shaffer
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The problem is that the rules text states that it is paid during the trade good income phase, and not during the capital building benefit phase.

Quote:
+$2 for each Gold or Silver Trade Good owned by the owner of this
Building. Each turn the owner must choose either gold or silver (not both)
before being paid during the Income phase.


The rules also say that merchant ships are trade goods.

Quote:
Merchant Ships are “wild card” Trade Goods that can stand in for one of any type of Trade Good needed when building sets.


This leaves the situation a bit more ambiguous in regard to whether the Mint grants $2 for merchant ships during the income phase.

However, I found this, which I believe answers the question about end game scoring.

Quote:
Capital Buildings that provide money do not convert their income into Victory Points at the end of the game.
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A J
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As you indicated, capital buildings that provide money are not counted for trade goods VP at game end.

Merchant ships do count as trade goods and will help. Basically you just count the points you get from trade (aka all your set collecting including merchany ships) and nothing else.
 
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Robert Danielson
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ayejae wrote:
As you indicated, capital buildings that provide money are not counted for trade goods VP at game end.

Merchant ships do count as trade goods and will help. Basically you just count the points you get from trade (aka all your set collecting including merchany ships) and nothing else.


Merchant ships count as goods for trade income yes, but they do not count as a gold or silver good for the Mint. That is all I was trying to say.

The end game scoring is clear, the money earned in the trade good income phase is exactly how many victory points you get.

The capital buildings benefits phase is after the trade good income and the mint gives money during this phase for your 'natural' gold/silver tiles only. Merchant ships have no effect on the Mint during this stage.
 
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Robert Danielson
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TheCat wrote:
The rules also say that merchant ships are trade goods.

Quote:
Merchant Ships are “wild card” Trade Goods that can stand in for one of any type of Trade Good needed when building sets.


This leaves the situation a bit more ambiguous in regard to whether the Mint grants $2 for merchant ships during the income phase.


I see no ambiguity here at all. Merchant ships are always defined 'wild card' trade goods for completing sets. They are clearly different from gold and silver and are not defined to be as such.
 
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Chris Shaffer
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Bronzeman06 wrote:
The capital buildings benefits phase is after the trade good income and the mint gives money during this phase for your 'natural' gold/silver tiles only. Merchant ships have no effect on the Mint during this stage.


On what basis do you make the claim that the mint pays during the capital buildings benefits phase? It seems clear from the wording of the rule that it does not, and rather pays during the trade goods income phase.
 
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Robert Danielson
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TheCat wrote:
Bronzeman06 wrote:
The capital buildings benefits phase is after the trade good income and the mint gives money during this phase for your 'natural' gold/silver tiles only. Merchant ships have no effect on the Mint during this stage.


On what basis do you make the claim that the mint pays during the capital buildings benefits phase? It seems clear from the wording of the rule that it does not, and rather pays during the trade goods income phase.


I looked at the rulebook and found that the rules section is clear but that the Mint tile 'clarification' confuses the issue instead.

Page 10:

"Phase 4: Capital Building Benefits

...Some buildings are one-time and/or immediate, while others (such as buildings that generate income and workers) occur every turn during the Capital Buildings Benefits phase..."

As the Mint is a building that generates income it applies to this phase.

The silly part I found is the 'clarification' for the Mint itself ends by saying "...before being paid during the Income phase". Since you don't get paid from any building in the Income phase, this is confusing and IMHO, likely erroneous information.

I also happen to have a copy of the original Builders Expansion where the Mint first appeared and it used the same phrasing. The builders expansion was, shall we say, error prone and unclear in many areas. I suspect that this is a case of an old error carrying over to the newer version of the game.

I personally don't see any reason to believe the Mint should work any different from the Trading Post, Rum Distillery, Taxation, and Factory which are all marked identically to the Mint as "Infinity Symbol" income buildings.
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Robert Danielson
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I reread this 10 more times and I think I figured out what the Mint 'Clarification' really means.

The full text:

+$2 for each Gold or Silver Trade Good owned by the owner of this Building. Each turn the owner must choose either Gold or Silver (not both) before being paid during the Income phase.

I assumed incorrectly that the payment they mentioned above was for the Mint Building. It is instead referring to the timing of the choice you must make. You must choose before you collect your normal Trade Good Income.

I think this is to avoid games with Buildings like the Smuggler, West Indies Company, or Trading House. (However, I am not clever enough to see how you can manipulate this or why this timing restriction might be necessary).
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A J
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I agree with your previous two assessments. The wording could probably have used some help, but essentially you gain your Trade Income and Capital Building Income in separate phases.
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Matt Smith
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I wrote the capital building reference section of the new rulebook, so I'll take the hit for the confusing wording on the Mint. Money earned from the Mint is awarded in the Capital Building Benefits phase. Only actual Gold/Silver tokens (not Merchant Ships) provide money.
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Steve Cohn
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Excellent. Got this to the table for the first time yesterday. At the end of the game I had the Mint and all 5 Gold Trade Goods (I also had the Smuggler from earlier, so...). For final scoring I collected points = to the revenue income from the gold (6 for a set of 4 gold, the 5th not counting).

Since the Mint is a building--and income from the building phase does not apply for end game scoring (this is quite clear)--I explained to the players that while I had collected additional income from having the Mint in earlier turns I would not be collecting additional points from the Mint because it was building-generated, not trade-good-generated. Glad to know we got that right!

Everyone agreed it was a great game--4 hours [the 4 hours flew by!] for 4 new players, including rules explanation and discussion--and everyone is looking forward to the next play. Everyone also thinks that now we know how to play, we will probably be able play it out in 2 to 2.5 hours going forward.

Great game!
~Steve
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