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Subject: George Takei takes issue with Sulu being gay. rss

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This is ........... Fascinating.

Could almost call it a real life person speaking for a comic book character that gets remade as gay.

I am somewhat surprised Takei is against it, given what I have heard Takei say.


http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/07/08/george-takei...
 
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From what I remember of seeing a different story, Takei had a problem with changing the backstory of a very familiar character. Roddenberry had developed Sulu with specific ideas in mind and Takei respects that. He didn't want the filmmakers to modify the original role in a way that reflects the actor. He had actually asked Cho (prior to the film being made) to avoid changing Sulu, but too late now.

He would have preferred that they make a new gay character because there wouldn't be any hostility from people for changing a 'known entity', like the BS that comes along with every single change (like casting a black Johnny Storm in the last FF movie).
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J.D. Hall
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Considering George himself is gay (not that there's anything wrong with it...), there is a level of hilarity to Takei's comments. I mean, I understand his resistance to further altering of the original Roddenberry storyline, but then again ... gay Sulu? But he was gay in real life!

Life is a cabaret old chum.
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Saw this and thought.

So an actor does not think that the real person and the character are the same, what a madman.

It is very odd that (apparently) this is being done to honor Takei, and he does not want it done.

Also there is a difference between, changing who wears a costume and an actual character.
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Huh...gotta admit I didn't quite see that coming, though he's completely right of course (Roddenberry wouldn't have wanted it).


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I'm with Takei. He's gay. He played a character who was straight. Saying "oh because you're gay every character you play is gay, thus Sulu is gay, yay happy fun tribute to you" when he has explicitly said that he played the character as straight and doesn't want them to make the character gay as a tribute because it's kinda a slap in the face to his acting ability.

But honestly this is par for the course for the reboot. It's constantly a flood of THIS IS A TRIBUTE TO STAR TREK and the fans will be like "so your tribute is to wipe out the 40 years of TV we loved after TOS?"

YES, ENJOY YOUR TRIBUTE. AND ALSO ENJOY THE FACT THAT WE HAVE REMOVED THE PESKY "SCIENCE" FROM YOUR SCIENCE FICTION.

Also it's not a Utopian future anymore. Also we're just going to make dumb action shit from now on and call it Star Trek. They have the megaphone so they just keep screaming "THIS IS A TRIBUTE YOU NERDS SHOULD LIKE IT" when they don't have the intelligence to actually write smart characters or stories, which is what Trek is and always has been about. Great science fiction ideas and stories, not "shit blow up real good to techno music".
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rylfrazier wrote:
I'm with Takei. He's gay. He played a character who was straight. Saying "oh because you're gay every character you play is gay, thus Sulu is gay, yay happy fun tribute to you" when he has explicitly said that he played the character as straight and doesn't want them to make the character gay as a tribute because it's kinda a slap in the face to his acting ability.

But honestly this is par for the course for the reboot. It's constantly a flood of THIS IS A TRIBUTE TO STAR TREK and the fans will be like "so your tribute is to wipe out the 40 years of TV we loved after TOS?"

YES, ENJOY YOUR TRIBUTE. AND ALSO ENJOY THE FACT THAT WE HAVE REMOVED THE PESKY "SCIENCE" FROM YOUR SCIENCE FICTION.

Also it's not a Utopian future anymore. Also we're just going to make dumb action shit from now on and call it Star Trek. They have the megaphone so they just keep screaming "THIS IS A TRIBUTE YOU NERDS SHOULD LIKE IT" when they don't have the intelligence to actually write smart characters or stories, which is what Trek is and always has been about. Great science fiction ideas and stories, not "shit blow up real good to techno music".
I was with you up until you claimed they removed the "science" form Star Trek, it's about as Scientific as Dr Who.
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rylfrazier wrote:
I'm with Takei. He's gay. He played a character who was straight. Saying "oh because you're gay every character you play is gay, thus Sulu is gay, yay happy fun tribute to you" when he has explicitly said that he played the character as straight and doesn't want them to make the character gay as a tribute because it's kinda a slap in the face to his acting ability.

But honestly this is par for the course for the reboot. It's constantly a flood of THIS IS A TRIBUTE TO STAR TREK and the fans will be like "so your tribute is to wipe out the 40 years of TV we loved after TOS?"

YES, ENJOY YOUR TRIBUTE. AND ALSO ENJOY THE FACT THAT WE HAVE REMOVED THE PESKY "SCIENCE" FROM YOUR SCIENCE FICTION.

Also it's not a Utopian future anymore. Also we're just going to make dumb action shit from now on and call it Star Trek. They have the megaphone so they just keep screaming "THIS IS A TRIBUTE YOU NERDS SHOULD LIKE IT" when they don't have the intelligence to actually write smart characters or stories, which is what Trek is and always has been about. Great science fiction ideas and stories, not "shit blow up real good to techno music".


OH AND DON'T YOU DARE TRY AND MAKE ANY MORE FAN FILMS OR WE WILL SUE YOUR ASS OFF! THIS SHOW IS OURS, NOT YOURS!!! DON'T FORGET IT. WE CONTROL THE CANON SO FUCK OFF!

---

I don't consider the new films star trek. They are some other film that a star trek art theme was pasted over. Only the art, none of the heart.
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maxo-texas wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
I'm with Takei. He's gay. He played a character who was straight. Saying "oh because you're gay every character you play is gay, thus Sulu is gay, yay happy fun tribute to you" when he has explicitly said that he played the character as straight and doesn't want them to make the character gay as a tribute because it's kinda a slap in the face to his acting ability.

But honestly this is par for the course for the reboot. It's constantly a flood of THIS IS A TRIBUTE TO STAR TREK and the fans will be like "so your tribute is to wipe out the 40 years of TV we loved after TOS?"

YES, ENJOY YOUR TRIBUTE. AND ALSO ENJOY THE FACT THAT WE HAVE REMOVED THE PESKY "SCIENCE" FROM YOUR SCIENCE FICTION.

Also it's not a Utopian future anymore. Also we're just going to make dumb action shit from now on and call it Star Trek. They have the megaphone so they just keep screaming "THIS IS A TRIBUTE YOU NERDS SHOULD LIKE IT" when they don't have the intelligence to actually write smart characters or stories, which is what Trek is and always has been about. Great science fiction ideas and stories, not "shit blow up real good to techno music".


OH AND DON'T YOU DARE TRY AND MAKE ANY MORE FAN FILMS OR WE WILL SUE YOUR ASS OFF! THIS SHOW IS OURS, NOT YOURS!!! DON'T FORGET IT. WE CONTROL THE CANON SO FUCK OFF!

---

I don't consider the new films star trek. They are some other film that a star trek art theme was pasted over. Only the art, none of the heart.


Like the Mission: Impossible movies. They're fine Tom Cruise action vehicles, but they have no relationship to the original TV show.

Star Trek the Action Movie is a fine summer action movie if you switch off your brain, but it's about as much related to the experience of watching the TV show as playing Star Trek the Pinball Game would be.
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I'm neutral on lens-flare / JJ Abrams and disliked the first re-make movie and loathed the second one. Anyone else? Sometimes it seems like my wife and I are the only ones.
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myopia wrote:
I'm neutral on lens-flare / JJ Abrams and disliked the first re-make movie and loathed the second one. Anyone else? Sometimes it seems like my wife and I are the only ones.


I disliked the first and skipped seeing the second in theaters.
I have no plans on seeing any more in theaters.
 
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I liked the first one, hated the second one.
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The upcoming TV show gives me some pause... we'll see.
 
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linguistfromhell wrote:
From what I remember of seeing a different story, Takei had a problem with changing the backstory of a very familiar character. Roddenberry had developed Sulu with specific ideas in mind and Takei respects that. He didn't want the filmmakers to modify the original role in a way that reflects the actor. He had actually asked Cho (prior to the film being made) to avoid changing Sulu, but too late now.

He would have preferred that they make a new gay character because there wouldn't be any hostility from people for changing a 'known entity', like the BS that comes along with every single change (like casting a black Johnny Storm in the last FF movie).


True. Though, the character needn't be that changed, imho. Canonically, Sulu was interested in women (such as Uhura, and even then usually when under the influence of space crazy or as a mirror universe version of himself), and he ultimately had a daughter... but there's no canonical reason he couldn't have been bisexual the whole time, and circumstances in the new timeline have him ending him up married to a guy instead of single during his assignment on Enterprise. As a side character, he didn't get much on-screen time exploring/defining all the nuances of his sexuality. A lot of young people only know Takei as the outspoken gay actor, and if they have any memory of original Sulu at all, it's probably the sweaty fencing scene from The Naked Time.


"What Roddenberry would have wanted"* hasn't really mattered since the early 90's, and it honestly shouldn't that much. Culture values shift, and the material should probably evolve to reflect that if it wants to keep up. Though it is kind of odd to modify a fictional character to reflect an actor that is no longer playing the role. It feels a bit trite to me, but so did pretty much every scene of Into Darkness.


*Edit to add my spouse mentioning "Roddenberry mentioned in a forward to the novelization of The Motion Picture that labels don't really have a place in the future, so it's possible that everyone's bisexual."

I haven't read the novelization of The Motion Picture.
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I hated both films I agree with the previous comment that the films weren't Star Trek films - they were stupid action movies with "Star Trek" slapped on it to sell to audiences.

I have absolutely no problem with Sulu being gay in this version. There have been plenty of changes made to the TOS characters and history already - Spock never dated Uhura on TOS, there was no mention of Old Spock time traveling to talk to Young Spock or Young Kirk, Kirk never had to be resurrected with Tribble blood, and Khan certainly didn't blow up parts of Earth. So why not this alteration? It's about time we had a gay Star Trek character anyway.
 
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mmazala wrote:
I hated both films I agree with the previous comment that the films weren't Star Trek films - they were stupid action movies with "Star Trek" slapped on it to sell to audiences.

I have absolutely no problem with Sulu being gay in this version. There have been plenty of changes made to the TOS characters and history already - Spock never dated Uhura on TOS, there was no mention of Old Spock time traveling to talk to Young Spock or Young Kirk, Kirk never had to be resurrected with Tribble blood, and Khan certainly didn't blow up parts of Earth. So why not this alteration? It's about time we had a gay Star Trek character anyway.


Given that Engineer Scott is already gay that makes gays 1/3 of the lead characters. Kinda "agendaee" for me. And where's the bisexual?

can't find support for my memory that they had made scott gay so striking this.
 
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rylfrazier wrote:
Star Trek the Action Movie is a fine summer action movie if you switch off your brain, but it's about as much related to the experience of watching the TV show as playing Star Trek the Pinball Game would be.


True, though some of the Star Trek pinball games are more related than others! The TNG table is pretty good. Data East Trek is... bizarre, but kitschy in a fond way. I have the new Stern, which has a great mode where you're punching Cumberkhan in the face, so I consider it a far better experience than watching the new movies.

Then of course there's Bally's Star Trek. Which is about as removed as you can get:

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maxo-texas wrote:
mmazala wrote:
I hated both films :( I agree with the previous comment that the films weren't Star Trek films - they were stupid action movies with "Star Trek" slapped on it to sell to audiences.

I have absolutely no problem with Sulu being gay in this version. There have been plenty of changes made to the TOS characters and history already - Spock never dated Uhura on TOS, there was no mention of Old Spock time traveling to talk to Young Spock or Young Kirk, Kirk never had to be resurrected with Tribble blood, and Khan certainly didn't blow up parts of Earth. So why not this alteration? It's about time we had a gay Star Trek character anyway.


Given that Engineer Scott is already gay that makes gays 1/3 of the lead characters. Kinda "agendaee" for me. And where's the bisexual?
Is he?
 
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slatersteven wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
mmazala wrote:
I hated both films I agree with the previous comment that the films weren't Star Trek films - they were stupid action movies with "Star Trek" slapped on it to sell to audiences.

I have absolutely no problem with Sulu being gay in this version. There have been plenty of changes made to the TOS characters and history already - Spock never dated Uhura on TOS, there was no mention of Old Spock time traveling to talk to Young Spock or Young Kirk, Kirk never had to be resurrected with Tribble blood, and Khan certainly didn't blow up parts of Earth. So why not this alteration? It's about time we had a gay Star Trek character anyway.


Given that Engineer Scott is already gay that makes gays 1/3 of the lead characters. Kinda "agendaee" for me. And where's the bisexual?
Is he?


Okay, this is weird. I remember it being widely reported but now all I see are articles saying sulu would be the first gay character. I'll see if I can find an article from back then. Perhaps it was potential back story but not reflected in the final movies.

---

Okay, wow. Can't find anything. Not a trace. I withdraw that part of my statements.
 
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Maybe he means "gay" in a non-sexual context?
BYW in the future everyone would bake anyone a cake and not give two shits.
 
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maxo-texas wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
mmazala wrote:
I hated both films I agree with the previous comment that the films weren't Star Trek films - they were stupid action movies with "Star Trek" slapped on it to sell to audiences.

I have absolutely no problem with Sulu being gay in this version. There have been plenty of changes made to the TOS characters and history already - Spock never dated Uhura on TOS, there was no mention of Old Spock time traveling to talk to Young Spock or Young Kirk, Kirk never had to be resurrected with Tribble blood, and Khan certainly didn't blow up parts of Earth. So why not this alteration? It's about time we had a gay Star Trek character anyway.


Given that Engineer Scott is already gay that makes gays 1/3 of the lead characters. Kinda "agendaee" for me. And where's the bisexual?
Is he?


Okay, this is weird. I remember it being widely reported but now all I see are articles saying sulu would be the first gay character. I'll see if I can find an article from back then. Perhaps it was potential back story but not reflected in the final movies.


Too much fanfic?

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lfisher wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
mmazala wrote:
I hated both films I agree with the previous comment that the films weren't Star Trek films - they were stupid action movies with "Star Trek" slapped on it to sell to audiences.

I have absolutely no problem with Sulu being gay in this version. There have been plenty of changes made to the TOS characters and history already - Spock never dated Uhura on TOS, there was no mention of Old Spock time traveling to talk to Young Spock or Young Kirk, Kirk never had to be resurrected with Tribble blood, and Khan certainly didn't blow up parts of Earth. So why not this alteration? It's about time we had a gay Star Trek character anyway.


Given that Engineer Scott is already gay that makes gays 1/3 of the lead characters. Kinda "agendaee" for me. And where's the bisexual?
Is he?


Okay, this is weird. I remember it being widely reported but now all I see are articles saying sulu would be the first gay character. I'll see if I can find an article from back then. Perhaps it was potential back story but not reflected in the final movies.


Too much fanfic?



Nope, it was from before the 1st movie opened, I thought simon pegg scott had been specifically made gay and recall some people being pissed about it.
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lfisher wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
mmazala wrote:
I hated both films :( I agree with the previous comment that the films weren't Star Trek films - they were stupid action movies with "Star Trek" slapped on it to sell to audiences.

I have absolutely no problem with Sulu being gay in this version. There have been plenty of changes made to the TOS characters and history already - Spock never dated Uhura on TOS, there was no mention of Old Spock time traveling to talk to Young Spock or Young Kirk, Kirk never had to be resurrected with Tribble blood, and Khan certainly didn't blow up parts of Earth. So why not this alteration? It's about time we had a gay Star Trek character anyway.


Given that Engineer Scott is already gay that makes gays 1/3 of the lead characters. Kinda "agendaee" for me. And where's the bisexual?
Is he?


Okay, this is weird. I remember it being widely reported but now all I see are articles saying sulu would be the first gay character. I'll see if I can find an article from back then. Perhaps it was potential back story but not reflected in the final movies.


Too much fanfic?

50 shades of Gorn?
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On the one hand, when you have actual contributors preferring you stick to a character as designed for a reason, you might want to respect that.

On the other hand, as a filthy shipper since I was young, authorial intent is a mere suggestion and will not get in the way of the fact that they had the wrong characters hook up.
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