GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
8,505 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
20 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Mottainai» Forums » General

Subject: Is Turtle too powerful? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Kevin Garnica
United States
West Covina
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I feel like this has been addressed elsewhere, but I can't seem to find it anywhere in the forums.

The Turtle basically states that when you have a work of each type (I'm assuming by the word have it means "built", and I'm further assuming that it doesn't matter if it's either in the Gallery or Gift Shop), you win. Really? just, straight up...win?

That seems awfully powerful. I know the game is about ridiculous card powers and "broken" combos and such, but what happens if your opponent builds the turtle as their first item? Is it just a race against the clock at that point, all because one card literally changes the endgame trigger? It's fine if the answer is yes, just want to hear it confirmed outside my own head, you know.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Unless your card draws are perfect and non-Turtles are feeding helpful actions (usually Smith) to Turtle, it is moderately difficult to actually get a work of each color.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Garnica
United States
West Covina
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tankbard wrote:
Unless your card draws are perfect and non-Turtles are feeding helpful actions (usually Smith) to Turtle, it is moderately difficult to actually get a work of each color.


Huh, okay. But are both of my "assumptions" correct nevertheless?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
It adds a win condition for the possessing player only. Everyone else still has the usual endgame and win conditions.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Turtle is the best card.

Not just the best card in Mottainai...the best card period.
29 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Renato
Portugal
Vila Nova Gaia
Porto
flag msg tools
I run through Rahdo's Runthroughs and make right what once went wrong (via annotations)
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Like it was said, the turtle only works for the player that built it...

And it's not very easy to win with it... it might be a contradiction because I've only played 1 game and won with the Turtle but it was only because I had the Poem that allowed me to when completing a Paper Work to return it and complete the work on top of the deck for free...
I triggered that two times and got a Clay work that requires 3 clay to be built and the Cloth that requires 2 cloth... both of those works if I didn't get them through the Poem I would have an extremely difficult time completing them because I hardly had any cards of that type in my hand... and building the Turtle it self was hard also... having enough cards to build Metal or Clay works is hard!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
Glory to Rome!
badge
"Let each man pass his days in that wherein his skill is greatest" Propertius Sextus
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
angelkurisu wrote:
Turtle is the best card.

Not just the best card in Mottainai...the best card period.


Counter argument:

10 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin
United States
Creve Coeur
MO
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gillum the Stoor
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Turtle is definitely overpowered.

But I think that there are only a handful of cards in Mottainai that are not overpowered.

And that is mainly because I just haven't yet figured out how to use some of them.

As has been said, if you build Turtle early, your opponent(s) will be watching you carefully.

If you save the Turtle to build late after paper/cloth/stone/clay (and manage to build all of those while keeping the Turtle in your hand), you may find it hard to get together all the metal you need.

Of course, if your cloth work is Cloak ...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gillum the Stoor
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Muse23PT wrote:
I had the Poem that allowed me to when completing a Paper Work to return it and complete the work on top of the deck for free ... I triggered that two times and got a Clay work that requires 3 clay to be built and the Cloth that requires 2 cloth... both of those works if I didn't get them through the Poem I would have an extremely difficult time completing them because I hardly had any cards of that type in my hand.

Maybe the point here is that Poem is too powerful.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonas Svedas
United Kingdom
Cambridge
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think the turtle is overpowered. I don't even think that I have ever won the game with the turtle. I think the main difficulty lies in the fact that its much easier to build many buildings of the same type than different ones due to the way your craft bench works. The other thing to consider is that although the turtle gives you a nice win condition it does not actually give you any special power that you could benefit from during the game.

Also, I have never tried playing the variant were you need to complete 6 works to win but the turtle might be more powerful in that one since you get more play time.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Renato
Portugal
Vila Nova Gaia
Porto
flag msg tools
I run through Rahdo's Runthroughs and make right what once went wrong (via annotations)
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gillum wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
I had the Poem that allowed me to when completing a Paper Work to return it and complete the work on top of the deck for free ... I triggered that two times and got a Clay work that requires 3 clay to be built and the Cloth that requires 2 cloth... both of those works if I didn't get them through the Poem I would have an extremely difficult time completing them because I hardly had any cards of that type in my hand.

Maybe the point here is that Poem is too powerful.


hehehe
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tobias Wehrum
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've attempted to win with Turtle four times. It worked exactly once, and only because I had the Handkerchief with a hand of about 15 cards and was winning anyway. In the other 33 rounds which I played, I never saw anybody win with it.

Getting a Metal or Clay work out usually takes a while (unless you are super lucky with your hand, or lucky with the floor and the other players don't care that you are collecting Metal/Clay into your craft bench). Getting BOTH out takes even longer, and on top of that you still need Stone, Cloth and Paper. It sounds nice in theory, but in practice for me the game has always ended before that.

(It's still the best card though!)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gillum the Stoor
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Legato wrote:
I've attempted to win with Turtle four times. It worked exactly once, and only because I had the Handkerchief with a hand of about 15 cards and was winning anyway. In the other 33 rounds which I played, I never saw anybody win with it.

Getting a Metal or Clay work out usually takes a while (unless you are super lucky with your hand, or lucky with the floor and the other players don't care that you are collecting Metal/Clay into your craft bench). Getting BOTH out takes even longer, and on top of that you still need Stone, Cloth and Paper. It sounds nice in theory, but in practice for me the game has always ended before that.

(It's still the best card though!)

I really don't mean to make the same joke over again (the one I did before with Poem), but I really do feel sometimes that Handkerchief is a pretty amazing card if you can put it to good use (e.g., with some Tailor helpers).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Schumann
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My nephew won with Turtle once. Once. (Anyone? Johnny Dangerously?)

We were both new. He got a spiffy card. Won without anyone interfering. That won't happen again if I'm at the table.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
Glory to Rome!
badge
"Let each man pass his days in that wherein his skill is greatest" Propertius Sextus
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Whizkid wrote:
My nephew won with Turtle once. Once.

What a fargin icehole! Put that bastage's bells in a sling!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Bankler
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
"Keep Summer Safe!"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I assume you are referring to the Great and Powerful Turtle from the Wild Cards series? If so, then definitely. I mean, they even point it out in the series that "The Strongest Man Alive" arguments were just "The Strongest man Alive, if you don't count the fact that the G&PT can bench about 100x more than he can, with his mind.")

Bah-roken.

If, however, you are referring to this game? Meh.

The only game I've seen won with the Turtle would have been won with any random work, because by the time he get it out, he was 10 points ahead and could have won the turn before by just spamming his gallery.

Lots of other works I'd rather draw.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♥Dust Pixie♥
msg tools
designer
Avatar
We've seen many turtle wins, twenty or so. I think the card is perfectly balanced, it's not hopeless enough that it's pointless to go for it, it's not a completely game-breaking card either.

Sometimes the player with turtle in play still loses, sometimes it gets used as a task instead of being attempted. (Mottainai has a heavier focus on long-term strategy than short-term tactics, ime, so if you can see yourself winning more easily in a non-turtle way it can go be Smith. But it's often enough possible to win with it.)

Haniwha is one of the strongest cards if you're hooked up with a lot of monks. But it's not an autowin either. This is a game where the tides can turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.