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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Break the rune + blast? rss

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Joe H.
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After finally getting a game group together I was going over the FAQ and I saw that Break the Rune can now be affected by blast...but how's that actually work? Every enemy hit by Break is the center of a blast? That's how I assume it'd work but a player in my group argues that only one can be blasted, another thinks you blast 'yourself', ie centered on you for extra damage on close minions, and another still thinks that every space is the center of a blast...which is clearly wrong but its amusing thinking about carpet bombing an area THAT hard. So who's right here, if anyone?

Going further on my initial way of thinking it works, if 2 enemies are adjacent; they get hit by Break, are affected by blast, which now overlap on each other. Do they get hit by both blasts?
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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What does break the rune do again?

Regarding your last example, a figure can only be affected once by each attack. So, no, the attack would not hit them twice.
 
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Joe H.
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Break is "Action: Perform an attack with a Rune weapon. This attack ignores range and targets each other figure within 3 spaces and in your line of sight. Each figure rolls defense dice separately."

Blast interacting with this seems weird, if monsters cant get 'double hit' by other blasts...what's the point? to extend the range a little on the edges?
 
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Johannes Benedikt
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hm... that's tricky.

technically break the rune is not a blast attack, not by name and the fundamental difference is that the attack not just affects each figure (like blast), but it targets each figure, yet it's still only one attack.

I guess I would rule it, so that a figure can't be targeted and affected by the same attack (just as you can't hit the original target with firebreath from the shadowdragon). However imo figures outside of within 3 spaces of yourself and yourself can be hit by blast.
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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The point is indeed to extend the range a bit and to possibly hit targets that are not in LOS. It would be OP as hell if you could double-hit targets!
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Joe H.
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And that's why I was asking. I'd rather get that settled before it becomes in issue. Now I know
 
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Paul
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If break the rune were affected by blast, there would not be anyone affected twice- some additional figures might be hit, but none would be hit twice.

However, unless I am mistaken, this is impossible- break the rune cannot be affected by blast, explicitly:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/descent2e/images/1/14/Ru...

EDIT: In my third post in this topic, I've pasted the text from a rules question I asked in March, 2016. "Break the Rune" can now be affected by blast.
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Joe H.
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zaltyre wrote:
If break the rune were affected by blast, there would not be anyone affected twice- some additional figures might be hit, but none would be hit twice.

However, unless I am mistaken, this is impossible- break the rune cannot be affected by blast, explicitly:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/descent2e/images/1/14/Ru...


The errata/faq updated it to remove that last line.
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/11/98...
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Johannes Benedikt
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Llez wrote:
zaltyre wrote:
If break the rune were affected by blast, there would not be anyone affected twice- some additional figures might be hit, but none would be hit twice.

However, unless I am mistaken, this is impossible- break the rune cannot be affected by blast, explicitly:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/descent2e/images/1/14/Ru...


The errata/faq updated it to remove that last line.
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/11/98...


It's the FAQ-controversy again. The FAQ changed "each monster and hero figure" to "each other figure" (meaning you won't target yourself anymore). As far as I know there are a few instances where the FAQ doesn't list unchanged porttions of the card (while they still are supposed to reamain on the card).
 
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Joe H.
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That's a really goofy way of listing changes then. I though I'd seen somewhere an unofficial-official statement that blast works with it now.
 
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Johannes Benedikt
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Llez wrote:
That's a really goofy way of listing changes then. I though I'd seen somewhere an unofficial-official statement that blast works with it now.


Yeah the FAQ-layout has been critisised many times by many people. Sadly getting an official statement regarding these changes is the only way to find out the RAW in these instances.
 
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Paul
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DA_Maz wrote:
Llez wrote:
That's a really goofy way of listing changes then. I though I'd seen somewhere an unofficial-official statement that blast works with it now.


Yeah the FAQ-layout has been critisised many times by many people. Sadly getting an official statement regarding these changes is the only way to find out the RAW in these instances.


I'll do some looking. I had forgotten this had been errat'd.

EDIT: My next post has a rules response.
 
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JH
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It's definitely a bit ambiguous with the "this card should read" note, but since the Reinforce update restoring the last line, typically I take a change to an Overlord or Class Card to only apply to the particular line being changed. In Break the Rune's case the line about surges is not even part of the same paragraph, so I wouldn't assume that rule was dropped.

For comparison, the Necromancer entry for Raise Dead says "The card should read, 'Place your Reanimate familiar token in an empty space adjacent to you.'” The entry doesn't repeat the line about only being allowed one Reanimate at a time and when you can discard it, but that doesn't mean the text about only controlling one Reanimate no longer applies. The line regarding surges and Break the Rune similarly remains unaffected.

It might be clearer to say "this line should read" rather than "this card," or to include the complete text of the altered card every time. Takes up a lot of space to do that, though.

 
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Joe H.
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Or 'only text listed is changed unless stated otherwise' that one line clears up the whole thing, avoiding people like me asking dumb questions laugh
 
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Paul
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Llez wrote:
Or 'only text listed is changed unless stated otherwise' that one line clears up the whole thing, avoiding people like me asking dumb questions laugh


Except that's not the case. I found my rules question/answer (March 7, 2016):

Quote:
Rules Question:
"Break the Rune" was changed as of FAQ 1.5. Does this rewritten form replace the entire text of the card (can Break the Rune now be affected by blast?) or just the top portion (changing the target mechanism to exclude the Runemaster, only) Thanks!

Answer:
Yes, the rewritten form replaces the entire text of the card.

Thanks for playing!
Kara Centell-Dunk
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
 
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Joe H.
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Well that clears up this one, but obfuscates other things like the reanimate, since they didn't say you can have one at a time...the faq should have its own faq. But at least the original question has been answered, poor formatting aside.
 
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Paul
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Llez wrote:
Well that clears up this one, but obfuscates other things like the reanimate, since they didn't say you can have one at a time...the faq should have its own faq. But at least the original question has been answered, poor formatting aside.
For the reanimate, I'd direct you here:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/224871-raise-...
 
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JH
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OK it would be really helpful then for FFG to standardize their FAQ entries for text replacement, because there's no way to tell from reading.
 
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Graham Martin
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Sorry for the necro-post, but since this thread is the number one hit in google for the related queries, I thought I would give a definitive answer with sources. (All citations are to the CRRG version 1.5 unless otherwise noted.

Page 52 - "Break the Rune
• Errata: This card should read: “Perform an attack with a Rune weapon. This attack ignores range and targets each other figure within 3 spaces and in your line of sight. Each figure rolls defense dice
separately.
” (My emphasis.)

"• As the last sentence of the original card has been deleted in the errata, Break the Rune may now be combined with Blast."

Page 7 - "Blast causes an attack to affect all spaces adjacent to a target. It affects both friendly and enemy figures." (My emphasis.)

Page 8 - "For multi-target attacks, Blast affects every figure adjacent to every target. However, figures may only be affected once per attack."

Page 4 - "A figure targeted by an attack is considered to be affected by the attack." (My emphasis.)-

Page 8 - "Road to Legend - If multiple monsters are affected by a Blast attack, one targeted monster is dealt [heart] as usual, other monsters are dealt half the [heart] (rounded up) before applying [shield]."

So, if you use Break the Rune with a blast attack, the following happens:

1) All figures, including friendly figures but not the attacker, withing 3 spaces from the attacker and in the attacker's LOS are targeted by the attack.

2) Any figure that is NOT targeted by the attack, but is adjacent to a targeted figure is affected by the attack. Thus, figures 4 spaces away but adjacent to a targeted figure will be affected, as will figures out of the LOS of the attacked, but adjacent to a targeted figure.

3) There is one roll for the attack.

4) If playing Road to Legend app, the attacker chooses ONE targeted figure to receive full damage. The rest of the affected figures takes half that value rounded up. If not playing Road to Legend app, all affected targets receive the full attack.

Note: We are waiting on FFG to clarify if the figure that gets full damage must be a targeted figure or if it may be a figure that was affected but not targeted. For now, I believe the rules as written (as well as the thematic elements) weigh in favor of only allowing full damage to be assigned to a targeted figure.

5) The affected figures roll their defense dice separately.

HTH!
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Sadgit
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Thanks for putting this together, Graham. It should really help players to get Break the Rune right more quickly.

Just one thing on Blast in Road to Legend: At the moment it is unclear if the attacker can pick one of the figures affected by the attack to receive full damage. It seems that one of the targeted figures has to be picked (p.6.). However, a paragraph on page 8 contradicts this.
As the change to Blast (p.6) is an addition in the current version of the RtL rule book, I suspect that someone at FFG just forgot to change the paragraph on page 8 accordingly. We have to wait for an response by FFG to fully clarify this, though.

Quote:
Blast
New RtL rule book; p.6
The attacker rolls his attack dice once and applies the full damage (
) to the target enemy and half of the damage (
) to figures adjacent to that space, rounded up.

New RtL rule book; p.8
When a hero performs an attack that targets or affects multiple monsters, the monsters gain an additional advantage during the “Deal Damage” step. Choose 1 monster to which you will deal damage first and resolve the step as normal. Then halve the
results (rounded up), and apply that value to each of the additional monsters, before applying
. This rule applies to attacks with Blast but also actions such as “Whirlwind,” “Army of Death,” and Leoric of the Book’s Heroic Feat.
 
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Graham Martin
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Good catch! I have updated my post.
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