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Subject: Best Version? rss

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Rob Rob
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I am considering buying this game but am unsure just which version to buy. The Parker Bros version goes for a good bit on eBay while the Waddington version goes quite cheaply. The Waddington version seems to have better "bits". I wonder what your thoughts were on what version to acquire?
 
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Norman Petry
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Re:Best Version?
Robrob (#23060),

I'd say that the best-looking edition is the one called 'Atlantis' that was produced by Parker Germany (and perhaps elsewhere in Europe). It doesn't have the best gameplay, though. The Parker/US edition (Survive!) has hidden score values for the pawns (ranging from 1-6) which makes for a much more interesting game. It's possible to adapt the German edition to the Survive! rules by replacing the pawns or numbering the undersides of the pawns, but this isn't as easy as it looks because: (1) they don't have a flat base, and (2) there are fewer of them for each player than in Survive!, so you'll need to use a different distribution of values.

The Schmidt and Waddington's editions of the game seem to be of intermediate quality in terms of components, but this is based only on illustrations I've seen here and elsewhere. I suspect that the Schmidt edition uses the same ruleset and component list as the Parker/Germany edition, so there's probably no advantage to buying that one unless you like the boxcover artwork -- it is better -- or can get it for a good price.

I can't really comment on the gameplay in the Waddington's edition, as I've only seen the pictures, but if it uses the Survive! ruleset (hidden scoring pawns), it's probably the best of the bunch. Does anyone know?
 
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The Rascal
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Re:Best Version?
npetry (#23066),

See my reply in the thread below on questions about the rules. There are significant differences between the Waddingtons and Parker versions and, in every case, I find the Waddingtons ones better. The W set (a set of which I found in a charity shop for £4) has attractive components, and the wooden Atlantean pawns are ideal for customising if you wish to add a points value per pawn. It also has the sealed spinner device which makes a pleasant change from yet another dicefest. As for gameplay, the only thing I change from the W rules is that I play that the game ends when the first player to move his last Atlantean to safety, OR the central mountain piece disappears (whichever comes first). You can still occasionally get a slightly unsatisfactory ending, when a player who has lost most of his Atlanteans to sea monsters or whirlpools, still wins by getting his surviving 2 men ashore whilst his opponent's 10 men are still swimming, but that's all part of the game.
 
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Rob Rob
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Re:Best Version?
fripono (#23075),
Thanks for the advice. One bit of confusion though, in the BGG pictures the W edition is shown in one photo with dice and and in another photo with a spinner. Which one is right? ???
 
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Norman Petry
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Re:Best Version?
Robrob (#23188),

I had a close look at the photos, and *both* of these appear to be Waddingtons' versions of "Escape from Atlantis". As you noted, the one labelled 'Waddington-Sanders' contains dice and also has hollow, plastic pawns. The other version uses the spinner, and what appear to be wooden pawns. If I had to guess, I'd say that the version with dice is a later revision of the game that used cheaper components (the boards appear the same). Both are definitely Waddingtons, though, and not Schmidt/Parker.


 
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The Rascal
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Re:Best Version?
npetry (#23196),
Yes. I'm pretty certain that you are right. The photo currently at the bottom left is the Waddington's set that I own with the spinner(and to which someone has manually added points values to the pawns)), whereas the photo immediately above looks like a subsequent Waddingtons re-release with inferior components. The artwork on the rules sheet front page looks identical though.
 
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Eddy Bee
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Re:Best Version?
Not to add any more confusion to this somewhat confusing issue, but I recently purchased a Waddington's edition of "Escape From Atlantis" on eBay, and the components look exactly like the top left picture (captioned "Hasbro edition"). The box looks just like the picture to the right, except there is a red Waddington's logo above the game title.

IMHO, this version has the nicest components - the people tokens are actual people, not pawns, and the monsters and ships are very nicely detailed. However, the people tokens do not have numbers, and there is no spinner.

I am going to add numbers to the bottom of the people tokens, but it'll be a little tricky. The male figures are easy, they have a flat base, but the female figures have a wide groove running across the bottoms of their bases, so it'll take a little more effort, but it's not impossible.

-Eddy Bee

"Once a gamer, always a gamer!"


 
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The Rascal
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Re:Best Version?
Eddy Bee (#23205),
I haven't played the game using different pawn values yet (but probably will try it). Is the consensus that this actually improves the gameplay, or does it merely add a further random factor?
 
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shumyum
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Re:Best Version?
fripono (#23206),

It definitely adds strategy. For instance, you may fill a boat with ones and twos as a decoy, while putting your six on a boat that contains other player's people (and hopefully get a free ride).
 
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Nate Schmidt
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Re:Best Version?
Could one of you who have the Parker version (pawns with hidden values) check and see that the rules are at this link?
http://www.centralconnector.com/GAMES/survive.html

I have the Atlantis version and am quite intrigued by this discussion. Point noted about the number and shape of the pawns, but that's probably easy to find a fix for.)

Thanks!
Nate
 
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The Rascal
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Re:Best Version?
game--player (#23215),
The link works fine. I've printed off the Parker rules just out of interest. Surprised to see no dolphins in this version. Without the quick route to land that they provide, this must prolong the game quite a bit. Perhaps between us we can come up with the ultimate rules for Survive/Atlantis? Looks to me like the Waddingtons' version just needs pawn values to be added and the clean end when the final mountain sinks, to make it pretty near perfect. Any other ideas anyone?
 
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Brad Miller
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Re:Best Version?
fripono (#23218),

No it doesn't rolong the game, because when the Volcano tile gets turned over, BOOM, game over. There are "dolphins move one of your swimmers three spaces" tiles, (although I always seem to get these when I don't have any swimmers...)
 
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Norman Petry
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Re:Best Version?
Eddy Bee wrote:
Not to add any more confusion to this somewhat confusing issue, but I recently purchased a Waddington's edition of "Escape From Atlantis" on eBay, and the components look exactly like the top left picture (captioned "Hasbro edition"). The box looks just like the picture to the right, except there is a red Waddington's logo above the game title.

[...]

I am going to add numbers to the bottom of the people tokens, but it'll be a little tricky. The male figures are easy, they have a flat base, but the female figures have a wide groove running across the bottoms of their bases, so it'll take a little more effort, but it's not impossible.


Your note above regarding yet *another* Waddingtons version is interesting. I believe that Waddingtons -- like Parker, Milton-Bradley, Avalon Hill, and so many others -- was assimilated by The Hasborg (Hasbro) a few years ago, and exists now only as a brand. Therefore, Hasbro Europe probably decided to consolidate production of this game using the continental European version (Parker brand label) for the componentry and ruleset, and ditch the Waddingtons design. Since the Hasbro version is physically much nicer than the last of the Waddingtons' versions, that was clearly the right move.

Unfortunately, as you and I both noted, for some reason the Hasbro (Parker/Waddingtons) version has slotted bases for the female Atlanteans, which makes it difficult to label them with point values -- annoying! I guess I'll have to fill the groove with epoxy or something and sand the bases in order to make the ideal version of (Escape from) Atlantis / Survive!

Any suggestions for a suitable putty or other material for doing this work? Epoxy would be OK, I guess, but there must be something better...
 
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Norman Petry
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Re:Best Version?
fripono wrote:
Eddy Bee (#23205),
I haven't played the game using different pawn values yet (but probably will try it). Is the consensus that this actually improves the gameplay, or does it merely add a further random factor?


I'm not sure what the designer thinks about this change (apparently added by some unknown developer at Parker Bros. for the US edition of "Survive!"), but I think it was a great idea, and a definite improvement.

The most important thing it adds is an element of bluff that's missing from the European editions. I guess that whether you like this or not depends on whether you like bluffing games. In one sense, it makes the outcome of the game a bit more random (which you may not like), but players still have partial information about each others' current score. You can always calculate the range of points each player may have scored, so it's still sometimes possible to know with certainty who's in the lead.

Another thing it does is prevent some kingmaking situations that can occur during the endgame. Since each player can only estimate the number of points won by other players, there's less incentive to try to hose the leader by targeting his Atlanteans with sharks and sea monsters.

Another game that similarly benefits from hidden scoring pawns is "Rette Sich wer kann".
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fer moros
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Re:Best Version?
npetry (#23240),
ho,ho, interesting thread on this game and nice to find so many people still on the game.


a) I think if you intend to add points is better the version with the wooden pawns. Not only they are flat, which allows to put stickers (like my friend Paul in the picture) but also because all the pawns are the same... making more difficult to remember which ones are which.

**However, you can always use a permanent marker which solves the problem of "flatness" on the plastic pawns, that should be OK.

The wooden pawns also are very steady on the boats. The dont fall. I am not sure about the plastic ones because i have not played with it , but I have around a few of those pieces, because they are nice and I dont think they settle as well as the wooden ones.


b) Concerning the game, we had played on the past without the points, but once we added the stickers, we always play it with them it is more fun and allows for strategies, close ends, and keeps the hope to the end of the game. The best is that once you put the points, you try it , and if you dont like it, then you dont use them.


If anybody needs the round stickers of the 4 colors and you can not find them, I can post them to you.
And notice that you dont need to make stickers for ALL the pawns. Leave the one point, with nothing and that save you some work !!

HAPPY GAMES !
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Eddy Bee
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Re:Best Version?
Eddy Bee wrote:
I am going to add numbers to the bottom of the people tokens, but it'll be a little tricky. The male figures are easy, they have a flat base, but the female figures have a wide groove running across the bottoms of their bases, so it'll take a little more effort, but it's not impossible.

npetry wrote:
Unfortunately, as you and I both noted, for some reason the Hasbro (Parker/Waddingtons) version has slotted bases for the female Atlanteans, which makes it difficult to label them with point values -- annoying! I guess I'll have to fill the groove with epoxy or something and sand the bases in order to make the ideal version of (Escape from) Atlantis / Survive!

Any suggestions for a suitable putty or other material for doing this work? Epoxy would be OK, I guess, but there must be something better...


I plan to print numbers on labels and affix them to the bottom of the bases. In the case of the slotted bases, I'm going to try to cut the label to fit inside the slot. Don't know if it will work, but I'll give it a try... it'll take a bit of precision with an Xacto knife!

I discovered something interesting as I'm preparing to do this. The Parker version has 10 figures per color, numbered: 1-1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4, 5, 6, while the Waddington's/Hasbro edition contains 12 figures per color - 6 male and 6 female.

This brings up a bit of a predicament. Since the W/H edition has two classes of characters (male and female), the values need to be distributed equally to preserve true secrecy. In other words, if the 6 is assigned to a male character, then players always know the 6 is among one of the male characters.

To address this, I'm altering the numbering scheme and assigning identical values to both male and female characters. The revised scheme is:

Male: 1-1, 2-2, 3, 5
Female: 1-1, 2-2, 3, 5

Now that's a simplified approach. A more involved approach would be to dig a little deeper and take advantage of the gender mix, making it part of the gaming equation.

So for example, the distribution might look something like this:

Male: 1-1-1-1, 5, 6
Female: 2-2-2-2, 3, 4

In this case, the male figures have extreme values, while the female figures are in the mid-range. This creates more risk associated with the play of male figures, while the female figures provide a reliable source of points.

Any thoughts?
-Eddy Bee

"Once a gamer, always a gamer!"
 
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Re:Best Version?
Eddy Bee (#23363),

I'm thinking of using this as a distibution:

male: 1-1-2-3-4-6
female: 1-2-2-3-4-5

Both sides average out the same and you don't have
too many overly powerful fives or sixes. I love the
look of Escape from Atlantis but Survive is so much better
a game. Does anyone have any recommendations about the modifying the EFA die? 3/6 faces are dolphins so sea monsters, sharks, octopuses almost never move. That is absurd and really spoils the game.
 
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Anthony Simons
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Re:Best Version?
GlennG (#24401),

I think the higher numbers should all be female; this would probably result in less female survivors, but then there are a number of thematic reasons for this:

1. Females in the ancient world stayed at home; quite probably they wouldn't survive the ravages of a sinking island and hungry sea creatures, so to get one home would be a bonus.

2. Females will be required if Atlantean civilisation is to continue.

3. Historically, men have gone out of their way to ensure the survival of their wives, daughters and girlfriends.

This isn't sexism, but adds flavour to the theme; players will target each others females in the certain knowledge they are worth more, and they are less likely to be left in a risky position.

Perhaps another way would be to put multipliers on some pieces; as long as they end up on islands with ordinary numbered pieces they will multiply the score for that island.
 
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Eric Snider
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Re:Best Version?
Here's a related selfish question. Uh... which version did I just buy? i.e. What parts are going to be inside this one? Did I do ok? The box cover looks different than nearly all the completed Escape From Atlantis auctions I could find on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5918729...BEOAB:US:6

or

http://tinyurl.com/4h6g9

Maybe I shouldn't have bid in the last 5 minutes of the auction? Total cost with surface shipping is going to be 11 pounds. So around $20 U.S.

Thanks!

Eric
http://www.sniderware.com
 
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Norman Petry
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Re:Best Version?
weasel (#53449),

Based on the box cover, it looks like you purchased a copy of the most recent Waddingtons edition. This one has (arguably) the nicest components, but doesn't have the hidden-scoring pawns, so you'll need to add them yourself.

This version should look the same as the Hasbro/Parker Germany version discussed above (sculpted male/female pawns, plastic island pieces, and a die for movement -- no spinner).
 
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Matt Jenkins
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Re:Best Version?
Looking into buying the 1986 version of this game made by Waddingtons...looked everywhere on the web for details on which components this game includes. Can't find anything.

Anyone know which version of the pawns this game contains? Does this version use spinners or dice? Thanks for the help.
 
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Re:Best Version?
Huxley (#68295),

Hi! I've recently bought the 1986 Waddintons version of the game and can confirm that it comes with simple painted wooden pawns with flat bases(not numbered). This version also has the spinner rather than dice, any further info required, dont hesitate to ask.
 
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Rob Rob
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Re:Best Version?
I have the Waddinton's version with 3D land hexes, little swimmer 'statues' and dice. Personally, the figures fall down at the drop of a hat and it get really bad when there's a full boat and a monster in the same hex. I might also of rather had the spinner. It's a fun game though.
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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Re:Best Version?
GlennG (#24401),

I just bought this game in the parker version. We've tried our first game without the hidden numbers and I think with the numbers it will be much better. Also, the dice has to be modified. No snake moved for the whole game... we kept getting dophings all the time... I think 1 dolphin, 2 sharks, 2 octopuses and 1 snake would be better (or maybe 2 dolphins and 1 octopus instead).

About how to put the numbers. What about writting them with a thin permanent marker? I've got some for writting onto CDs and seems to work ok...
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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Re:Best Version?
maka (#70492),

Sorry... the version I was reffering to is the Hasbro (with the male/female pieces) though it says parker on the box....
 
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