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Hurtgen: Hell's Forest» Forums » Rules

Subject: Stacking Company Units rss

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Clay Stone
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Are we allowed to stack (4) company units together? By rule we are allowed (2) battalion and (1) company so is it safe to have just (4) companies stacked?


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Joseph Youst
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Clay,

No. four separate companies by themselves cannot be stacked together. This represents a command & control thing. It is not just a representation of available physical space. Three companies - no problem.
 
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Doug Johnson

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In the update, it will clearly state that the maximum number of coys is three.
Two exceptions to this is

1.A German Pz Coy (1 step) could stack for free with a Motorized/Armored Engineer coy (you can't use a breakdown) of the same pz division, giving you more than 3 Coy in the hex.

2. Allied Hybrid 2 step units and TD/AT or Eng Coys.

Example: Hurtgen 9th Pz Division

1./86/9Pz Pio Coy and 4./2/33P/9Pz PzV Coy
2&3/86/9Pz Pio Coy and 5./2/33P/9Pz PzV Coy
Each of the above count as one coy for stacking (6.1.2)
3./50/9Pz PzJ Coy
2x Z-step units.

If you were in a constricted hex, you could only have 2 Coy plus the two Pz attachments and one z-step unit.


Example: Hurtgen 3rd US Armored Division

CCA3/3A and Armored Eng Coy (Arm Eng Coy is breakdown from 23/3A Eng Btn.

CCA4/3A and M-10 Coy (M-10 Coy is breakdown from 703rd M-10 Btn).

Any Coy or two step Hybrid unit.
2x Z-step units

Again you can't use breakdown Coys as substitute for Hybrid units and max number of two attachment units apply (6.1.4). US Infantry Divisions couldn't get this type of stacking due to the restrictions in 6.1.4 requiring Btns or two step Hybrids.

This stacking shows the tactical superiority of the Germans when creating adhoc BGs. In AW due to how the Aufk Btns are shown as two, two coy units, you could actually end up with another Pz Coy.

That is the only way you could get more than 3 coy stacked in a hex, as all other attachments require a Btn.


 
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Clay Stone
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Hey Doug and Joe,

I do understand the stacking restrictions. I was just a little confuse if all my units were just "company" units and how many could stack together.

So here is my questions:

1. Can I stack (1) 2-step Hybrid company Unit with (1) Btn unit in the same hex?

2. Can I stack (1) 1-step Hybrid Co unit plus (2) 2-step Hybrid co units in the same hex?

3. Can I stack (3) 1-step Hybrid company units in same hex?

4. Can I stack (3) 2-step Hybrid co units in same hex?

Hybrid units are the only units confusing me on stacking.


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Doug Johnson

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1. Can I stack (1) 2-step Hybrid company Unit with (1) Btn unit in the same hex?

Yes you can. A two step hybrid unit is considered a company sized unit (4.1.2) In this case you have a coy sized unit stacked with a Btn sized unit. perfectly fine in accordance with basic stacking 6.1.0

2. Can I stack (1) 1-step Hybrid Co unit plus (2) 2-step Hybrid co units in the same hex?

Yes. Remember that current strength does not set the size of the unit for stacking purposes. A Battalion is always a battalion, a one or two step coy is always a coy. So in this case you have three companies stacked in the hex (if all hybrid units were two step at full strength)

3. Can I stack (3) 1-step Hybrid company units in same hex?

There isn't such a thing as a one step hybrid unit. Minimum number of steps for a hybrid unit is 2 steps at full strength. So the number of steps remaining in a unit is not important, it is what the unit size was at full strength

4.3.1

The number of steps in a unit is reduced as the unit takes losses in combat. When a unit loses its last step, it is eliminated and removed from the board. A unit’s size remains the same regardless of the number of step losses it has sustained. A two company hybrid unit that has suffered a step loss is still considered to be two companies (of the types shown on the counter), and a battalion sized unit that has suffered step losses is still a Btn.


4. Can I stack (3) 2-step Hybrid co units in same hex?

If the hybrid units were 2 steps at full strength, the answer is yes. If they were 3 step hybrid units then no, 3 step hybrid units count as Btns.
 
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Doug Johnson

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Let me clarify a little more.

There are Btn sized units that start with 3, 2, or 1 step. (4.1.1)
A 3 step Btn that has one step remaining is still a Btn. The number of steps remaining does not affect any rules unless the rule specifically states that the number of steps/coys are counted (i.e. when determining density, or for shipping in AW).

There are 1 and 2 step coys (4.1.2). In the case of coys, some rules state that only a 1 step coy can use the rule (6.1.2 & 6.1.4). If the rule doesn't specifically state that it is restricted to a one step coy, then either a 2 or 1 step coy may be used.

For example: when determining max stacking for a non-constricted hex, the Allied player could have:

A Btn and a one step AT/TD Coy or a one step Eng Coy and
A Btn with a one step AT/TD coy or a one step Eng Coy and
Any non-Btn sized unit.

So taking the 3rd Arm. I could stack

CCA1 (3 step hybrid (Btn)) with 1 step breakdown M-10 Coy
CCA2 (3 step hybrid (Btn)) with 1 step breakdown of Armored Eng Coy
CCA3 (2 step hybrid (coy sized)) (non-Btn sized unit).
2 z-step AT breakdown units.

Lets say all three CCA were two step hybrid units. in this one case you could stack up to 7 units. Using the rule below, Two of the hybrids (2 step full strength) could have a AT or Eng stacked free with each hybrid and then one more one or two step Coy (which could be a 2 step hybrid unit) could stack with them. plus up to 2 z-step.


6.1.5
Allied
Any Btn + 1 AT/TD or Eng Coy
Any Btn + 1 AT/TD or Eng Coy
Any non-Btn sized unit (if this unit is a hybrid unit) + 1 AT/TD or Eng Coy
2 zero step units
Max of seven units (since only two Eng or TD/AT Coys are allowed total for the stack, not three, under 6.1.4).

Make sense?
 
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Clay Stone
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Thank you Doug,

That cleared up a lot...

Hope you and Joe are doing well.


Clay
 
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Doug Johnson

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Doing great, I am finishing up GOSS rules and chart updates. AW final run thru is next. I am enjoying your posts with Hurtgen on the wargame site.
 
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Atlantic Wall: D-Day to Falaise (Decision Games)
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Nice clarity explaining the stacking rules Doug. They can be a bit of a bugger 'cause they are rather unique. Personally I think Joe really is a genius and I love his designs like these.
 
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