GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!

9,211 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
17 Days Left

Support:

Patrick Kotenberg

Washington
msg tools
Hello, I am in the very early stages of designing my board game. I came up with an idea I would like to run by the community and receive your feedback. One thing I would like to innovate is the action stage of the players turn. My Idea is at the start of each players turn, roll 2d6 to determine how many actions a player would receive on his turn. The icons on the 2d6 are changed. The "6side" of a the d6 has 2 icons on it. All the other side of the d6 have 1 icon on it.
Most turns players will have 2 action a turn and this would be considered standard. An uncommon turn would allow the player to have 3 actions and a rare turn would give the player 4 actions! I hope that this mechanic brings a heroic and cinematic feel to the game. And also this could be affected by other game effects.
I would very much appreciate your feedback and thoughts on this mechanics. Thank you
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Gibbs
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hard to comment on this without a lot more context.

Is this a co-op or competitive dungeon crawl?

Is there any sort of snowball effect in the game? By that, does character power grow as the game goes on, with this acting in a cumulative way. If so, someone who gets lucky with a couple good rolls at the start may be uncatchable. In a co-op, this may not matter as much as in a competitive game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Kotenberg

Washington
msg tools
It is a co-op. A lot of design work still to do. My plan is to have the party gain experience as a party instead of individual. The main leveling up with access to stronger equipment. There will also be experience that can be spend on new skills spells and so on.
Leveling up would be in-between encounters. Players will gain equipment inside the dungeon as they work through it. From encounter to encounter the players will be stronger and face harder enemies.
Also, during the design process, I want to add a single play through sessions for people who dont want to play a campaign. At this stage, it is just a concept. I don't have anything written on how that would work
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Gibbs
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ok, you don't have to worry too much, then, about the unbalancing effect for a player-player advantage.

It sounds fine from an interesting "do extra" point of heroism at occasional points. About 1 in 6 will be big, 1 in 36 will be super-big. You would have to consider this when balancing the entire game, of course.

If there are 4-8 rolls for a game, would be hard to balance. If we're talking 20-40 or more rolls, then it should be reasonable to balance.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cornixt
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gggaming wrote:
I hope that this mechanic brings a heroic and cinematic feel to the game. And also this could be affected by other game effects.

There's nothing wrong with it as a mechanism, but I don't think it brings any thematic feel to a game. It's a random event every turn, but it would be more heroic if it only came into effect (or could be saved up for) turns when defeating the stronger monsters or casting a difficult spell.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Kotenberg

Washington
msg tools
cornixt wrote:
gggaming wrote:
I hope that this mechanic brings a heroic and cinematic feel to the game. And also this could be affected by other game effects.

There's nothing wrong with it as a mechanism, but I don't think it brings any thematic feel to a game. It's a random event every turn, but it would be more heroic if it only came into effect (or could be saved up for) turns when defeating the stronger monsters or casting a difficult spell.


I like the idea of being able to save it. But I am not sure how that would be implemented. Ant ideas ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Arias
United States
Sanford
FLORIDA
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gggaming wrote:
cornixt wrote:
gggaming wrote:
I hope that this mechanic brings a heroic and cinematic feel to the game. And also this could be affected by other game effects.

There's nothing wrong with it as a mechanism, but I don't think it brings any thematic feel to a game. It's a random event every turn, but it would be more heroic if it only came into effect (or could be saved up for) turns when defeating the stronger monsters or casting a difficult spell.


I like the idea of being able to save it. But I am not sure how that would be implemented. Ant ideas ?


Flash Point: Fire Rescue uses fixed amounts of Action Points per Turn but you can save unspent APs for use in a later Turn, using tokens to track them. The game comes with gobs of tokens but usually we only accumulate 1 or 2 befire using them.

2 actions for a dungeon crawler is just right for me, it lets you move & attack, move twice or attack twice (assuming your game has these concepts with this implementation), w/o anyone's turn taking too long. The dice with chance of extra actions is ok by me and if you have tough or numerous enemies could provide some great life saving moments.

The other thing I'm seeing games do is also randomize choice of actions. I don't like this as much though it seems to work in the titles I've seen.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L S
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have to agree with Cornixt here, I don't see how such a random power surge would add to the theme in the way you intend it to. What is the in-universe explanation for heroes speeding up every now and then?

From a purely mechanical standpoint, it also seems somewhat crude. You introduce a random diceroll, and at the same time you limit the randomness to the smallest possible variance on a die. The 3-action-turns will happen regularly (28% of the time), so they'll probably not be seen as something heroic and exceptional, while a 4-action-turn will happen maybe once per game (3%), at a rate that is so low that I don't think it even warrants the added delay of rolling before every turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Breckenridge
United States
Richmond
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When you say icons on the dice, do you mean different icons for different actions, so the player might roll attack and move, or defend and move, or search and attack or something like that?

It would seem that quite often a player would end up getting an action that isn't usable based on where the character is.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TTDG
United States
Fairfax
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ask yourself how players would feel if instead they had a single d36, where 1 side said 4, 6 sides said 3, and all the other sides said 2?

I just rolled a d36. If it is 36, call it 4. If it is 35 to 30, call it 3. Everything else is a 2.
d36 d36 = (31) = 31

In other words, the dice is just a means of generating a shaped random number distribution, which in your case you have a lucky spike on 1 end. Some people dislike dice because they feel that the dice hate them, that they are being punished for being unlucky, that their choice is being taken from them, and that they have been subject to an unfairness.

You could do the same thing with a deck of 36 cards labeled appropriately.

I will say, your spread is not huge. Rolling a 1 or 2 when someone else can roll a 6 or 12, feels worse. So maybe you have a small enough spread, and common enough average to achieve the heroic feel you want. But when it comes to humans and their feelings, you should playtest it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TTDG
United States
Fairfax
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, my custom roll, achieved using the Roll button beside Font Size, gave me 50% more actions than the average roll. If we are playing competitively, maybe I will crush you and there is nothing you can do about it except roll better? If it is co-op, that would feel different.

Edit:
D&D has had critical hits and critical fumbles (at some tables) for decades now. 5% chance of getting a 1, and a 5% chance of getting a 20. Players tend to be cooperating in parties, but "natural 20's" lead to weird situations where 100 commoners can kill a boss, because 5 of them will hit it / turn. It turns more comedic or tragic than heroic. OTOH, you've eliminated the bottom tail.

But next you may end up with people hating having to roll when, on average, nothing ever changes from the 2. It is a lot of rolling for the rare heroic stuff.

Again, playtest it! You might find a different mechanic that gives you what you want without all of the bad, like marking so many of some other resource used in the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robin Armstrong
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
gggaming wrote:
I like the idea of being able to save it. But I am not sure how that would be implemented. Ant ideas ?

Instead of always rolling each turn, have everyone automatically get 1 Action per turn. Then, they can roll a d6 once per turn as well. Players can elect to not roll, and "save" the roll for thier next turn, thus:
Turn 1: 1 Action + 1d6 (uses 1 Action only)
Turn 2: 1 Action + 2d6 (1 for turn and 1 saved from earlier; uses both)
Turn 3: 1 Action + 1d6 (new this turn)
etc...

You'd probably want to have 1 on the d6 be 0 Actions as well as 6 being 2 Actions, and put a cap on how many dice can be stored, and probably have a time when all stored dice are lost (between encounters, or after resing, or whatever your game has).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Kotenberg

Washington
msg tools
Two actions a turn I also feel is a minimum for a dungeon crawl. Though I would like to expand on the concept a bit. Thats why, with the current design, two actions is the minimum.
I like that you brought up tough or numerous enemies because that is exactly what I am designing for. I want the game to be fun but also hard, and that in it self can be tricky to design.
I will do some play testing with saving actions, but initial thoughts are thats not the direction I am looking for.
At this time, all the action dice have the same icon on every side of the d6. And only the "6" side has 2 of those icons. That is the base line, though I also feel it would be poor game design to implement something like this and then not have mechanics in the game to adjust the results for either a positive or negative effect. I will do some more play testing on a single dice. But, I find using 2 dice to achieve a result instead of 1 die is far more even and balanced. With 2 dice you end up with the average a lot more often then you will with a single die that will be much more "swingy" for lack of a better word. Your much more likely on a single die roll to hit the highs and the lows of the possible numbers. With 2 dice you are much more likely to hi the "middle" or average.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TTDG
United States
Fairfax
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gggaming wrote:
But, I find using 2 dice to achieve a result instead of 1 die is far more even and balanced. With 2 dice you end up with the average a lot more often then you will with a single die that will be much more "swingy" for lack of a better word. Your much more likely on a single die roll to hit the highs and the lows of the possible numbers. With 2 dice you are much more likely to hi the "middle" or average.


A d12 gives you a uniform distribution between 1 and 12. It is swingy in that 1, 7, and 12 are all equally likely results. 2d6 gives you a bell curve. 3d4 gives you an even more peaked bell curve. But, the 1d36 I described earlier gives you statistically exactly the same results as 2d6. It does so because all of the possible combinations from the 2d6 each get their own side on the d36. That d36 is not numbered 1-36.

You are already doing custom dice (faces). It then becomes a question of cost vs cool as to whether a custom d36 is better or worse for your game than 2 custom d6. Or as I said earlier, you could do the same thing with cards, chits in a cup, cubes in a bag, cubes in a tower, colored balls in a flipper, etc.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Kotenberg

Washington
msg tools
ThroughTheDeckGlass wrote:
gggaming wrote:
But, I find using 2 dice to achieve a result instead of 1 die is far more even and balanced. With 2 dice you end up with the average a lot more often then you will with a single die that will be much more "swingy" for lack of a better word. Your much more likely on a single die roll to hit the highs and the lows of the possible numbers. With 2 dice you are much more likely to hi the "middle" or average.


A d12 gives you a uniform distribution between 1 and 12. It is swingy in that 1, 7, and 12 are all equally likely results. 2d6 gives you a bell curve. 3d4 gives you an even more peaked bell curve. But, the 1d36 I described earlier gives you statistically exactly the same results as 2d6. It does so because all of the possible combinations from the 2d6 each get their own side on the d36. That d36 is not numbered 1-36.

You are already doing custom dice (faces). It then becomes a question of cost vs cool as to whether a custom d36 is better or worse for your game than 2 custom d6. Or as I said earlier, you could do the same thing with cards, chits in a cup, cubes in a bag, cubes in a tower, colored balls in a flipper, etc.


I see what your saying. I will see if I can locate a blank 1d36. And when I am at a flgs, I will ask people roll a 1d36 or 2d6 and see what kind of feedback I get.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.