$15.00
$20.00
$5.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Design Queries and Problems

Subject: [LCG] Alternative Resource Systems? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Herbert Smith
msg tools
Hi,

I am currently designing a battle orientated (YGO, Magic, Pokémon, Duel Masters etc.) LCG. It seems that I like Magic derived resource systems the most. Don't have any problems with them but I'm looking for something new. I need more inspiration. It's difficult for me to find something new because the Mana System is already excellent in terms of simplicity and gameplay.

Can anybody tell me other resource systems? Which of them is your favourite and why? Are there any real alternatives to Mana?


Thanks in advance.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jacob Schoberg
United States
Elkhorn
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
when i get home, i'm so tired
badge
just roll over, please. i'm so tired. just roll over, please. i'm so tired.
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
Android: Netrunner has no automatic resource generation. You can play cards for credits, or spend your limited actions for credits, but it isn't like mana in MTG.

Summoner Wars has a great resource system. Every time you kill an enemy unit, it becomes magic you can use to summon more units. You also have the option to discard cards at the end of your turn to build more magic. This is important because you never shuffle your deck, so it is a very tactical decision.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stiofán O'Dubya
United States
Scotia
New York
flag msg tools
admin
designer
Top o' the Mornin' to Ya'
badge
Oh, not in Utica, no. It's an Albany expression.
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
I'm fond of the way Magi-Nation Duel handled it, where casting power and health were more or less the same thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brendan Riley
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Nos operamur, te ludere
badge
"Life is more fun if you play games." - Roald Dahl
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
I have always loved the way Vampire: The Eternal Struggle did its resource management -- you start with a "pool" and pretty much everything you do costs from that. You can increase it, of course. What's cool, though, is that this is also your life, so as you spend, you're making it easier for your opponents to win.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
United States
Little Canada
Minnesota
flag msg tools
It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
badge
golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
There's a lot you could do with the Race for the Galaxy / San Juan "spending cards to play other cards" mechanic. Costs could be phrased as
- "discard X cards"
- "place X cards from your hand on top of your deck"
- "place X cards from your hand onto the bottom of your deck"
- "discard X cards and draw Y new ones" (for very cheap costs, the "cost" being replacing known cards with random cards)
- "your opponent draws X cards"
- "your opponent returns X cards from his discard pile to his deck/hand"
- Several of the above, combined.

A downside is that such a game would probably need larger amounts of card draw than you'd see in Magic (and subsequently either larger decks or a rule for reshuffling your discard pile) and the difficulty of comparing two costs (especially when some "costs" can be beneficial in certain circumstances).

On the positive side, it means you need no tokens or cards that produce only resources (lands), it mitigates poor draws (cards only good in the late or early game can be put back into your deck or discarded), and it lessens the importance of a sideboard (if a card is only good in a particular matchup or circumstance, you can still include it and just discard it to pay for something else).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Herbert Smith
msg tools
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
Thanks for your answers so far.

Does a CCG exist in which you control multiple units with a similiar battle system like Pokémon? Is it even possible to make a resource system to manage multiple active units like this or is this just too much to put in a card game? Most card games I know and you mentioned have an universal resource pool every unit can use. You either have to draw the resources or you already have them. I guess the latter would be the easiest to realize but isn't too much work to track everything? Would you play a game with this kind of resource managment? Or are this kind of battle CCG only suitable for 1 vs. 1 battles?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brendan Riley
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Nos operamur, te ludere
badge
"Life is more fun if you play games." - Roald Dahl
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
I don't know Pokemon, so I can't answer that part of it. Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn uses multiple resources, though, with a nifty dice mechanism too.

(The following comment assumes that you're using CCG to refer not to the play style of a game, but the actual model of the card distribution -- as in Magic or Pokemon, where people are buying variable booster card packs.)

Are you absolutely sure that CCG is the right model for your game? My understanding is that this is an extremely difficult kind of game to launch, it needs a lot of developer support, and is difficult to recruit players to. Speaking for myself, I would absolutely NOT play a game that was distributed under a CCG model, and a "living" or "extendable" card game that did NOT have random distribution packs is also a difficult sell because of the presumed commitment.

A game that was designed to have expansions, like Summoner Wars, would be far more likely to entice me to play.

James Mathe, a very successful indie developer, has some strong words on this subject: http://www.jamesmathe.com/to-ccg-or-not-to-ccg-that-is-the-q...

Best,
Brendan
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United Kingdom
Southampton
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
golden_cow2 wrote:
There's a lot you could do with the Race for the Galaxy / San Juan "spending cards to play other cards" mechanic.


I would really like to see this used more. I'd like to see a game with CCG type play but a single deck. Much easier to start playing and no need to build decks beforehand.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United Kingdom
Southampton
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
Epic Card Game - you can play one card which costs one per turn and any number of free cards.

Magic: The Gathering - an unofficial variant where you can play cards as basic lands. I'm not sure exactly how it works.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Strobel
United States
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
You could do a system where the cards you play have a printed "mana" value on them. Then that total value is available to "summon" cards from your hand. Cards could have multiple types of "manna" displayed for deck building. Somewhat similar to The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Herbert Smith
msg tools
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
For me CCG stands for customizable card game with deck building. How else should I call it here to prevent misunderstanding? At the moment, I don't care about selling the game but if I have to then I would prefer a LCG model.

zabdiel wrote:
Magic: The Gathering - an unofficial variant where you can play cards as basic lands. I'm not sure exactly how it works.

Maybe it works like Duel Masters or Orbs?

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brendan Riley
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Nos operamur, te ludere
badge
"Life is more fun if you play games." - Roald Dahl
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
jambalaya wrote:
For me CCG stands for customizable card game with deck building. How else should I call it here to prevent misunderstanding? At the moment, I don't care about selling the game but if I have to then I would prefer a LCG model.

zabdiel wrote:
Magic: The Gathering - an unofficial variant where you can play cards as basic lands. I'm not sure exactly how it works.

Maybe it works like Duel Masters or Orbs?



Don't use the abbreviation "CCG" then. You want Deck Construction game. A CCG is a collectible card game with the randomized packs and the factors I mentioned above.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
United States
Mountain View
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [CCG] Alternative Resource Systems?
Other models not mentioned include the Game of Thrones CCG/LCG, where you have a separate deck of Plot cards that provide gold for the turn (paying for other cards) as well as effects tailored for your deck.

There's Shadowfist where you don't spend resources. Instead, each card has icons on it, and it provides some and needs some, and to play a card you must have enough of that icon in your combined play area and discard pile. Thus, you start with free cards that provide one icon, gradually ramping up to being able to play your most powerful cards in the 6-8 icon range.

Some games combine a per-turn resource (like mana in Magic: the Gathering) with a nonrenewable resource (like Pool in Vampire: the Eternal Struggle). You see this in games like Legend of the Burning Sands, where cards cost both copper (which you make every turn) and water (which is a finite resource).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.