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Dominion: Empires» Forums » Variants

Subject: Card Ideas rss

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John Hart
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La Marque
Texas
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Please tell me what you think.

Loan Shark - event (0c)
+1 Buy Gain 1 coin token and 3 debt tokens (this may be bought even if you have debt tokens)

Bank - Action Duration(2c) : Any other player may gain 1 coin for 2 debt during there buy phase as part of paying for a card. Place 1 coin token for each time this card is used. At start of turn gain all the coin tokens on this card.


Spite (3c) - Action Attack (split card)
Gain 1 curse (if able), give all other players 3 debt.

Malice (4c) - Action (split card)
Search the trash pile and replace all curse cards found into the supply pile. For every 2 curse cards returned gain 1 victory token

Deal with the.... (2c) Action
Gain 1 curse, if you do remove 4 debt tokens

Credit - Event (0c)
Gain any card (non-treasure, non-victory) in a supply pile, gain debt tokens equal to 2 times the cost of that card

Philanthropist - Event (2c, 2d)
+1 buy +1 Vic token

Yard sell. (event) (1d)
+1 buy, Trash a card from your hand, remove debt tokens that you have equal to the cost of the card.



These were just a couple of ideas that hit me after playing this new expansion. They have not been played it's just what came to mind.






 
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Jacob Lee
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Victoria
British Columbia
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I think these all seem like serviceable cards, but a new expansion would require a "twist" of some sort to existing mechanics. I like the Yard Sell the most. The card names could use a more medieval touch in keeping with the theme. "Bank" has already been used as a card name. You have some good ideas!
 
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Clive Jones

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(As a minor note, Bank is already in use as a card name. As a second minor note, you're using coin tokens, so would need Guilds as well in order to use the cards as written.)

Several of those seem to occupy the same kind of space as Capital: letting people get non-debt-cost cards by accruing debt. And Loan Shark looks very nearly strictly worse than Credit.

Credit should say "in the supply" rather than "in a supply pile", unless you really intend that people be able to dig down piles and gain something that's not on top. It's also worth thinking about what you want to happen if people gain a card with potion or debt cost.

Malice has a couple of aspects that worry me slightly. Firstly, once somebody's played it, the card is useless for everybody until there are more Curses in the trash. Secondly, it might prolong slogs in an unwelcome way.

Yard sell is curious. In one sense it's very similar to Salvager (downside: it can't give you spending money, only clear debt; upside: it's an Event not an Action so usable on demand). But on second glance it's a stronger trasher than Chapel. That leads me to suspect it might be overpowered. (-8
 
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Jeff Bockelman
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timex wrote:

Loan Shark - event (0c)
+1 Buy Gain 1 coin token and 3 debt tokens (this may be bought even if you have debt tokens)


The debt tokens for this are kind of silly. You can't buy anything but this event with your extra buy until you get rid of the debt tokens, so why not just make it cost $3? Seems like an edge case as to why anyone would want it at $3.

timex wrote:

Bank - Action Duration(2c) : Any other player may gain 1 coin for 2 debt during there buy phase as part of paying for a card. Place 1 coin token for each time this card is used. At start of turn gain all the coin tokens on this card.


Why would anyone ever choose to gain one coin token for 2 debt if that gives you a coin token? What is the use of having a coin token if you have to take 2 debt for it? This might be useful if another player could take a coin token for free. How long is the duration on this card? One turn, the whole game, or something in between?

timex wrote:

Spite (3c) - Action Attack (split card)
Gain 1 curse (if able), give all other players 3 debt.

Malice (4c) - Action (split card)
Search the trash pile and replace all curse cards found into the supply pile. For every 2 curse cards returned gain 1 victory token


An attack that gives debt is an interesting idea. 3 debt is a pretty harsh attack; not sure if the curse is enough to balance that. Maybe add an "if you do" after the curse gaining; without it, the attack seems way too harsh.


timex wrote:

Deal with the.... (2c) Action
Gain 1 curse, if you do remove 4 debt tokens


Maybe make this an event instead, and get rid of the debt tokens. As it is now, it is almost useless. "Gain a curse; if you do, +$4" could work as an event. Maybe.

timex wrote:

Credit - Event (0c)
Gain any card (non-treasure, non-victory) in a supply pile, gain debt tokens equal to 2 times the cost of that card


Do you mean the cost of the card in coins? Hard to deal with potion and debt here. Also, I don't see how this card would be very useful. You can't even buy this event if you have any debt tokens.

timex wrote:

Philanthropist - Event (2c, 2d)
+1 buy +1 Vic token


Why not just make it $4? The +1 Buy isn't useful unless you immediately spend $2 to pay off your debt tokens so that you can buy something else.

timex wrote:

Yard sell. (event) (1d)
+1 buy, Trash a card from your hand, remove debt tokens that you have equal to the cost of the card.

You can't buy this event if you currently have debt tokens, so the only debt token that can be removed from the trashing is the one that you get for buy this event.


Overall, I'm not real fond of these cards, but I like the idea of an event in which you can gain a curse in order to get a benefit. That's kind of similar to Deal with the.... card as a concept.
 
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Thomas Brendel
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Dunwoody
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Note that the existing cards that interact with the trash (Forager, Graverobber, Rogue) all have the ability to trash things as well, which guarantees that their other effects can be made useful. Spite/Malice do not put Curses into the trash, so there may not ever be Curses to pull out.
 
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Sean McCarthy
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timex wrote:
Please tell me what you think.

Loan Shark - event (0c)
+1 Buy Gain 1 coin token and 3 debt tokens (this may be bought even if you have debt tokens)


No - the debt cost of this is really only useful in concert with something like Butcher that allows you to spend coin tokens (while in debt). A card should stand on its own and not rely on such a rare effect to be also present.

If you intend for the debt to be gained after the buy phase so the coin tokens can be used for buys, then 1) it needs to be limited to once per turn for balance reasons, and 2) it's too similar to Borrow, and obviously underpowered compared to it to boot. So this isn't a satisfactory direction to take it.

Quote:
Bank - Action Duration(2c) : Any other player may gain 1 coin for 2 debt during there buy phase as part of paying for a card. Place 1 coin token for each time this card is used. At start of turn gain all the coin tokens on this card.


Needs work. This card is useless in 2 player (because either you shouldn't play it, or your opponent shouldn't use it). It needs to have a base effect and not rely on the choices of other players to do anything.

See cards like Bishop that do it right, by making the option given to the opponent an add-on to a powerful main effect.

Quote:
Spite (3c) - Action Attack (split card)
Gain 1 curse (if able), give all other players 3 debt.


No - this is the kind of card that leads to game states where players can't do anything and it's really frustrating. It's too easy to build a deck that can draw itself, play a couple of these, and then draw and trash the curses. Giving players unlimited amounts of debt is not a good mechanic for an attack.

Look at how some adventures attacks do it (handing out the -1 coin token, which is limited to one copy) or, if you're bold, at Torturer, which gives you a choice between a painful effect that stops being painful after a while (the curses) and an effect as mean as handing out debt (discarding down to zero cards).

Quote:
Malice (4c) - Action (split card)
Search the trash pile and replace all curse cards found into the supply pile. For every 2 curse cards returned gain 1 victory token


No - the issue here is it's all or nothing. The first person who gets to draw this gets the victory points, and no one else does. It's pretty lame that plays of this card after the first are liable to have absolutely no effect.

It's also too specialized for a kingdom card: it relies on their being a way to trash curses.

This effect is really only viable as the followup to a card that will singlehandedly result in curses being trashed.

Quote:
Deal with the.... (2c) Action
Gain 1 curse, if you do remove 4 debt tokens


Relies on a way to gain debt tokens to even do anything, which is a huge problem. Aside from that, it's underpowered.

Quote:

Credit - Event (0c)
Gain any card (non-treasure, non-victory) in a supply pile, gain debt tokens equal to 2 times the cost of that card


This might be close to OK. Certainly you'll need to specify that you can't gain cards with non-coin costs. Gaining 8-debt-cost cards for free is not what you intended, I'm sure.

Quote:
Philanthropist - Event (2c, 2d)
+1 buy +1 Vic token


If you read Donald's descriptions of his development process, you will see that there is a huge emphasis when designing victory-point-token-granting-cards that they also drive the game towards a conclusion. For example, Goons gives you VPs for buying cards.

This event is the opposite - it tells you to take away money from the pursuit of buying cards and instead use it directly to gain point. That's a problem. The card needs some reason for players to not just use this over and over again.

Quote:
Yard sell. (event) (1d)
+1 buy, Trash a card from your hand, remove debt tokens that you have equal to the cost of the card.


One issue with this is that the rules don't let you buy it if you have debt, so you're really only potentially removing the one token. Iron out that issue one way or the other and it looks close to reasonable. The big remaining issue is then that it lets you trash your starting estates completely for free. Is that really what you want?
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Robert Crawford
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Like SevenSpirits said, Spite is really problematic. You can easily give someone more debt per turn than they can pay off per turn. Even if it only gave out 1 debt that could be true. And if both players do it; then you just have an impossible-to-end game.

And if you wanted to give out debt in a limited way so that you can't lock people out of the game, well that's just Bridge Troll and the -$1 token.
 
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