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Eclipse: Rise of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Ancient Homeworlds with 4 players rss

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Justin Kitt
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I have a question on setup if using the Ancient Homeworlds. The diagram in the rules shows all the starting Homeworlds in a "ring" formation as per a 6p game. However this breaks the symmetry of the original 4p setup where no player has a wormhole facing towards another player.

I was wondering if anyone knows why this symmetry was broken, and whether there is a concensus that this is the best setup, or whether we should go with the original 4p setup in the vanilla rules and just pop the ancient Homeworlds in the gaps? There is a still a symmetry issue here as each Homeworld can only "face" one player, making them slightly easier to access for two players in the game. Is this the reason, so that players with easier access to the Homeworlds have to deal with aggressive neighbours as well?
 
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Peter O
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It's shown right in the rules. I think the logic goes like this. The player with the tier 2 wormhole pointed towards the ancient has the advantage that should their tier 1 be delayed with ancients, their tier two could still link up with the ancients tier I but not directly through tier 2.

On the other side of the ancient is a player with their tier I pointing towards another player instead of the ancients. If this players tier I is not cooperative, they have to go through tier III to get to the ancient. However, should their tier I be okay, they have an extra opening on the ancient to connect to. Say the first player tries to connect and finds a double ancient hex in the Tier I of the ancient home world. The second player could connect using tier II.
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Tahsin Shamma
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Normally players in 4p vanilla Eclipse have either a neighbor that their homeworld wormhole points to or an empty hex. For those who would normally get the empty hex, now it's filled with something more difficult to defeat.

I think the main intention is to not allow for the empty space. If you're going to take on the ancients in the homeworld sector, you need to beef up your ships a bit. This gets you some additional points, but for the players who aren't pointed towards the ancients, they have a bit of added security and opportunity to attack an adjacent player.

I think it's mostly balanced out.
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Justin Kitt
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Thanks for the replies. I did see the rulebook diagram, I was just curious as to the logic behind the difference from vanilla.

I was coming at it considering the player v player interactions, where this setup gives one player an advantage going towards their neighbours t1. However, I missed the fact that other configurations give the potential for some players to connect directly the Ancient Homeworld through t2 which I can see being too advantageous.

veector wrote:
Normally players in 4p vanilla Eclipse have either a neighbor that their homeworld wormhole points to or an empty hex.


If I understand your meaning correctly this isn't actually right. The 4p vanilla setup is different from all the others in that two players on one side of the galaxy are arranged in "parallel", by which I mean their t2 wormhole is pointed away from their neighbour. So they both have access around the empty sides of the galaxy, rather than towards a direct neighbour.
 
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Tahsin Shamma
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JAKitt wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I did see the rulebook diagram, I was just curious as to the logic behind the difference from vanilla.

I was coming at it considering the player v player interactions, where this setup gives one player an advantage going towards their neighbours t1. However, I missed the fact that other configurations give the potential for some players to connect directly the Ancient Homeworld through t2 which I can see being too advantageous.

veector wrote:
Normally players in 4p vanilla Eclipse have either a neighbor that their homeworld wormhole points to or an empty hex.


If I understand your meaning correctly this isn't actually right. The 4p vanilla setup is different from all the others in that two players on one side of the galaxy are arranged in "parallel", by which I mean their t2 wormhole is pointed away from their neighbour. So they both have access around the empty sides of the galaxy, rather than towards a direct neighbour.


Oops, sorry, you're right.
 
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Bill Collins
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JAKitt wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I did see the rulebook diagram, I was just curious as to the logic behind the difference from vanilla.

I was coming at it considering the player v player interactions, where this setup gives one player an advantage going towards their neighbours t1. However, I missed the fact that other configurations give the potential for some players to connect directly the Ancient Homeworld through t2 which I can see being too advantageous.

veector wrote:
Normally players in 4p vanilla Eclipse have either a neighbor that their homeworld wormhole points to or an empty hex.


If I understand your meaning correctly this isn't actually right. The 4p vanilla setup is different from all the others in that two players on one side of the galaxy are arranged in "parallel", by which I mean their t2 wormhole is pointed away from their neighbour. So they both have access around the empty sides of the galaxy, rather than towards a direct neighbour.


A couple points.

First, if you look at the diagrams on page 7 of the original Eclipse rules, it shows all the homeworlds - very faintly - pointing toward galactic center with a wormhole connection to the right of whatever hex side faces the GC. The diagrams in RotA follow this pattern for all setups for 2-6 players when they also show AH placements.

Second, the AH's distract and stall players who otherwise might expand into a larger set of Tier II and I hexes. This becomes more apparent as a problem in a 5 player game where there is less parity and those sitting on either side of the "empty" racial homeworld space have a slight advantage over the other 3 who don't have an empty space. (Said advantage being exploration potential with lowered threat from neighbors.)

Third, the AH's specifically exempt Draco. It's a subtle but important point. Draco next to an empty homeworld sector can try to draw more sectors with Ancients, increasing their hold on the galaxy.
 
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Locke Balenska
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If you want to keep the original 4-player symmetry, just don't have the Ancient Homeworlds connect to Tier 1:




It changes up the dynamics of the Ancient Homeworlds a little bit since they become more of a separate "node" away from the Galactic Centre, but it'll work just fine.

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Bill Collins
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Have you tried that skir? I like the idea that it changes up the game.
 
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Locke Balenska
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Yup, I've played with that layout a handful of times before. Worked absolutely fine.
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