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Subject: 1854, is it allowed to buy a 3-train before all 2-trains and 1+ trains are sold? rss

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Der Gaukler
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Hello me again,

It´s about the 1854 game.

For me as newbe to these games it is not quite clear, if it is allowed to by a 3-train before all 2-trains are sold?
Or as soon as i buy a 3-train (or 2+ train or 3+ train), the phase 3 starts with all its effects? No matter if there are still 1+ and 2-trains?
(And the same with the upcoming trains?)

I´m still stuck in the first game...... uff

Thanx for a reply.
 
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A K Vikhagen
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pilarius wrote:

For me as newbe to these games it is not quite clear, if it is allowed to by a 3-train before all 2-trains are sold?


No

pilarius wrote:

Or as soon as i buy a 3-train (or 2+ train or 3+ train), the phase 3 starts with all its effects? No matter if there are still 1+ and 2-trains?


Yes

Check the rulebook on page 15 for 1854, the phases are described there. I'm also a newbie btw, and I have also been playing 1854 and 1844 solo to learn the rules and some of the strategies
 
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Eric Brosius
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Trains bought from the bank must be bought in order from small to large (with the exception that once the 6-trains run out, you may buy either 8-trains or OE-trains.)
 
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Der Gaukler
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Thanks A K Vikhagen for your reply.

I read the rules already twice, and some rule sections .... five times?
At least in the german rules, it´s not so clear, how you can trigger the next section. It´s written, when one of the trains of the next phase has been purchased by a player, this phase gets triggered. It´s not mentioned that you have to finish first all the other trains of the lower value.

That means you just built two separate stack of cards with the train cards.
One with the + trains for the local companys, and one with just the numbers.
The lowest card on top, the highest at the bottom.
If one player buys a train he/she must buy the topmost card. Right?
 
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Der Gaukler
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Thank you too Eric,

from top to bottom, lowest to highest value. In both stacks. You just have to buy the topmost card. If it is a train card from the next phase, that phase gets triggered wit all it´s affects. Correct?
 
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A K Vikhagen
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pilarius wrote:
Thanks A K Vikhagen for your reply.

I read the rules already twice, and some rule sections .... five times?
At least in the german rules, it´s not so clear, how you can trigger the next section. It´s written, when one of the trains of the next phase has been purchased by a player, this phase gets triggered. It´s not mentioned that you have to finish first all the other trains of the lower value.

That means you just built two separate stack of cards with the train cards.
One with the + trains for the local companys, and one with just the numbers.
The lowest card on top, the highest at the bottom.
If one player buys a train he/she must buy the topmost card. Right?


I got a lot of help from reading the 1830 rules in addition to the 1844/54 rules, as they sort of build a foundation on which other 18XX games write their rules. I get the impression that some of the most obvious things lose focus in other 18XX games' rules. But I would say this applies more to, say, the rules of 1889 than to the rules of 1844/54, which I think was quite good for a newbie like myself.

At least reading the 1830 rules worked well for me
 
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J C Lawrence
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Campbell
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Specifically: the Avalon Hill rules for 1830 and not the almost entirely useless Mayfair rules for 1830.

Cleaner copy of the original Avalon Hill rules.
 
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Eugene van der Pijll
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pilarius wrote:
Thank you too Eric,

from top to bottom, lowest to highest value. In both stacks. You just have to buy the topmost card. If it is a train card from the next phase, that phase gets triggered wit all it´s affects. Correct?

Not entirely.

The normal trains are sold strictly in order. That is, the first 3 only becomes available when the last 2 train is sold; the first 4 train when the last 3 train is sold, etc. When the first normal train of a type is bought, a new phase of the game begins.

The availability of the plus trains is more complex:
* the 1+ trains are available from the start of the game.
* the 2+ trains are available after the first normal 3 has been bought. This is not dependent on the availability of the 1+ trains. (That is, if the 1+ trains are sold out, but the first 3 has not been bought, the 2+ Cannot be purchased; and after the first 3 train is bought, the 2+ trains are available even if the 1+ trains are not sold out.)
* the 3+ trains are available when the last 2+ train has been bought.
 
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Michael Milford
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Eugene, you are right except for one point.

The 1+ trains have to be sold out before the 2+ trains are available.

See Game Setup second paragraph on page 3, 'When the available trains are sold, lay out the next type'.

Going from a 2 train to a 3 train represents technology progress in that type of train, as well as industrial progress for the phase change. But the technology progress going from 1+ trains to 2+ trains does not have to happen at the same time (and usually will not). Think of an Operating Round as a number of years of progress, maybe 5 or 10 years per OR.
 
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Eugene van der Pijll
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Railhead Mike wrote:
Eugene, you are right except for one point.

The 1+ trains have to be sold out before the 2+ trains are available.

See Game Setup second paragraph on page 3, 'When the available trains are sold, lay out the next type'.

That phrase is not in the German rulebook, but an equivalent phrase occurs in the section on buying trains: 'Die neuen Loks werden in aufsteigender Reihenfolge verkauft.' (The new trains are sold in ascending order.)

This contradicts the statement in the section on phase changes.

In real games, this is unlikely to make a difference; there are six local companies, and six 1+ trains IIRC, so the 1+ trains will be sold out in the first OR.
 
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Der Gaukler
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Again thanx to all of you.
If even experts are not sure in such a basic rules, then... tja... what then....?
Even if in real games, this is unlikely to make a difference, i have to explain the game to gamers that like to play, but never played a game like this before. That´s why i´m so stuck on that.

If... only if... i understood right, it seems to be like this:

Two stacks of train cards:
one with the regular numbers,
one for the + trains.
In the beginning the 1+ trains and the 2 trains are available.
Always all the lower value cards of one stack have to be sold, before a higher card of that stack can be purchased.
BUT!!!!
The 2+ trains can only be purchased when the first 3 train card got sold.
And only when all 1+ cards are sold you can purchase the 2+ cards, and when all 2+ are sold you can purchase the 3+ cards.

PLEASE TELL ME THAT I UNDERSTOOD IT RIGHT THIS TIME..... PLEASE...
i´m begging...uuuhhuhu
cry

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J C Lawrence
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Correct.
 
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