Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Fief: France 1429» Forums » Rules

Subject: Help needed with English Rule Clarifications Compendium rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Fabrizio N
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
badge
I don't think so
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm working on "Project Impossible" = put in one place all the little rule revisions, addendum and clarifications we had on this fantastic game in the two years it's been around.

I've written a compendium that can be found here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/134807/fief-france-1429-r...

However I have several other questions on the rules that I could not find satisfactory answers to.
If you could please have a look below, it would be great to take a few of those off the list and add them to the compendium.

I think whenever possible precedence should be given to the designers words.
When not available, I hope we could reach a "forum consensus" but I would rather avoid being tide up in endless discussion about different interpretations of the rules.
Maybe something is meant to remain unknown...

This is just about the English rules.
I'm aware the French rules are different and if you try to read my compendium with the French rules in mind, it will obviously make no sense.
I've only use the French manuals to correct what I believe were omissions in the English version. I hope I got those right but maybe the designers had intended the changes.

Anyway here's the questions.


Fief France 1429
• (9.1) “She (D’Arc) receives an additional Battle Die in all battles.” - Does this mean also in Cavalcade battles?
• Scenario: A player moves D’Arc + knights + men at arm to one of his villages, then he leaves the men at arm behind and uses D’Arc + knights moves 2 and 3 to Cavalcade through an enemy’s village. Is this legal?
• Does D’Arc title contribute to the price of a ransom?
• Can Ambush card be used to capture a Lord during a Cavalcade battle?

Crusades
• Can the power of the Arab Physician once back in France protect a Lord's troops from the effect of the plague? (C 1.4.2) Only Lords in French rules. The English rulebook mentions troops but only back in France, not while on Crusade that is rather weird.
• (C 2.3.1) “If Saladin moves into an unoccupied Objective, he only picks up the Objective’s listed Saracen Reinforcements (not any listed Saracen Defenders).” – If the Objective is empty because the Saracens Defenders have defeated the Crusaders during Invasion of Outremer, does Saladin pick up both the reinforcements and the surviving defenders?

Tactics
• Can Archers’ ability be used when defending from Cavalcades?

Templars
• (T 1.3) Implies that the King is forbidden from enacting the Royal Edict if there is a Grand Master but no Pope – Is this correct?
• (T 1.1) "A candidate to Gran Master is elected with simple majority and a minimum of 2 votes" – Does this mean at least 2 votes are available or the candidate must receive 2 votes?
• Do Templar Knight and Gran Master titles count for calculating the price of a ransom?

The last two also apply to the Teutonic Knights expansion.

Many thanks for your help.
4 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Of course waiting for the designers to show up.
In the meantime I'm adding my considerations to the discussion.

Cavalcades: They are Battles, the manual confirms it and even calls them Cavalcade Battles so we've always applied everything that applies to Battles, such as:
- Defending Archers use their pre-battle ability.
- Arch gets +1 Die (any side of the battle she is)
- Ambush can be played

* Your example Cavalcade scenario is valid. The rulebook says "[An] Army can only initiate a Cavalcade if it has another move remaining after the
Cavalcade Battle." Nowhere it states that the whole movement prior the Cavalcade must be made cavalcading (eg. the 1st movement of the Arc lady).

Same goes for Titles:
D'Arc, Templar and Teutonic are all titles so they should contribute to the ransom price.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ScalpHell
France
Lestrem
Hauts de France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We have always considered "d'arc" like Not a title (0 voice for the king's election except if she has a Fief Title of course, 0 for ransom, etc.).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I AM Not A Number
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
darknico wrote:
We have always considered "d'arc" like Not a title (0 voice for the king's election except if she has a Fief Title of course, 0 for ransom, etc.).

Right
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I AM Not A Number
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Axiomystical wrote:
Fief France 1429
(9.1) “She (D’Arc) receives an additional Battle Die in all battles.” - Does this mean also in Cavalcade battles?

Yes. A Cavalcade implies a battle so D'Arc has +1 battle die.

Axiomystical wrote:
Scenario: A player moves D’Arc + knights + men at arm to one of his villages, then he leaves the men at arm behind and uses D’Arc + knights moves 2 and 3 to Cavalcade through an enemy’s village. Is this legal?

Yes. A move can be a Cavalcade if there is at least one more step to move after and if last step has been initiated with knights only.

Axiomystical wrote:
Does D’Arc title contribute to the price of a ransom?

No. D'Arc is not a title.

Axiomystical wrote:
Can Ambush card be used to capture a Lord during a Cavalcade battle?

Yes. A Cavalcade implies a battle.

Axiomystical wrote:
Crusades
Can the power of the Arab Physician once back in France protect a Lord's troops from the effect of the plague? (C 1.4.2) Only Lords in French rules. The English rulebook mentions troops but only back in France, not while on Crusade that is rather weird.

It seems to me that the Arab Physician has been designed to protect the Lords not the troops.

Axiomystical wrote:
(C 2.3.1) “If Saladin moves into an unoccupied Objective, he only picks up the Objective’s listed Saracen Reinforcements (not any listed Saracen Defenders).” – If the Objective is empty because the Saracens Defenders have defeated the Crusaders during Invasion of Outremer, does Saladin pick up both the reinforcements and the surviving defenders?

No. Saladin starts by getting the reinforcements and then if there is no crusader he goes to the next objective. It is only if there was a battle that Saladin picks up the surviving defenders.

Axiomystical wrote:
Tactics
Can Archers’ ability be used when defending from Cavalcades?

Yes because a Cavalcade is a battle. And the archers have +1f to their die. This is why leaving some archer at a border village can be interesting : it somehow prevents small cavalcades.

Axiomystical wrote:
Templars
(T 1.3) Implies that the King is forbidden from enacting the Royal Edict if there is a Grand Master but no Pope – Is this correct ?

Yes, as written.

Axiomystical wrote:
(T 1.1) "A candidate to Gran Master is elected with simple majority and a minimum of 2 votes" – Does this mean at least 2 votes are available or the candidate must receive 2 votes ?

The candidate must receive at least 2 votes.

Axiomystical wrote:
Do Templar Knight and Gran Master titles count for calculating the price of a ransom ?

Templars and Teutonic Knights are not titles and do not change the ransom price. But Gran Masters do : +2 for each.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fabrizio N
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
badge
I don't think so
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks a lot for the comments so far.

The titles is the part that confuses me the most.
The manual states that D'Arc doesn't vote for the king election, and specifies that it provides the +1 strength point in battle, which would be a given if D'Arc was a title. I think that's good reason for considering it not a Title.

However, what's the rational for the Templar and Teutonic Knight?
If it is because they don't give the bearer a vote in the King election, shouldn't this also apply to the Gran Masters?

I totally agree with all the rest that has been said.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was sure the rules referred somewhere to the D'Arc as a title, and now I found it.

Check the setup page of the EN rulebook
The step 7 refers to the D'Arc as a Title.

And I think I saw somewhere else the D'Arc being referred as a title.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I AM Not A Number
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
But she does not vote for the king.

The rationale is that D'Arc is not a noble title in itself. Same thing for Templar and Teutonic. But Gran Masters do vote for the king because they are a Victory Point : they have been "elevated" to the noble rank.

IMHO
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christoph Wolf
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the only unclear part is if D'Arc increases the ransom. As it is probably the most valueable "title or similar" apart from pope or king I think it is only reasonable that the ransom is increased. Bear in mind that this mechanic substitutes the former where you could demand any ransom or keep a lord prisoner for as long as you wanted. To me it sounds stupid that after capturing d'Arc I have to release her for a mere 2 deniers.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Krakauer
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
iamnan wrote:
But she does not vote for the king.

The rationale is that D'Arc is not a noble title in itself. Same thing for Templar and Teutonic. But Gran Masters do vote for the king because they are a Victory Point : they have been "elevated" to the noble rank.

IMHO


Gran Masters DO NOT have a vote in King elections.
It's in the manuals T 5.0 and TK 5.0 FAQs.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Krakauer
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Soul_Guile wrote:
I was sure the rules referred somewhere to the D'Arc as a title, and now I found it.

Check the setup page of the EN rulebook
The step 7 refers to the D'Arc as a Title.

And I think I saw somewhere else the D'Arc being referred as a title.


Very true.

I searched through the PDF, the manual uses the words "d'Arc Title" 3 times: in the setup as you mentioned, in paragraph 1.1 Marriage Alliances, and in paragraph 5.0 Movement.
However in chapter 9.1 where the "Title" is described, there are only mentions to d'Arc card and d'Arc counter.
In comparison the chapter on the Cardinals (5.1) uses the word Title throughout, as well as Cardinal Title card.
In 1.2 Titles the authors list all of them. The only one left out is d'Arc.

How about all that for consistency?

No inconsistency in the French manual though. D'Arc is never called Title anywhere in the book and accordingly it doesn't appear among the list of titles in 1.2.
Looks like we have another case of sloppy translation. I can't believe Uwe intended to promote d'Arc to Title status but forgot to add it to the list.
No +2 for ransom IMO.

With Teutonic and Templar Knights it gets really messy.
The manuals call the Knights titles in T 2.0 and TK 2.0, but doesn't do the same for the Gran Masters.
The French counterparts do the opposite: Knights aren't Titles, but GMs become Titles in T 5.0 and TK 5.0 FAQs at the end.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrea Bampi
Italy
Padova
flag msg tools
badge
"Go suck yer blade!"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Istarical wrote:

Looks like we have another case of sloppy translation. I can't believe Uwe intended to promote d'Arc to Title status but forgot to add it to the list.
No +2 for ransom IMO.


I agree, seems to be a sloppy translation. BTW, makes thematic sense to me. D'Arc WASN'T a "title", in the traditional meaning. In game terms, it's just some kind of "power-up" for female Lords
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christoph Wolf
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I completely agree with you guys in that d'Arc is no title. And if there is no exception made in the french rule book then maybe it is even intended that d'Arc only pays 2 deniers ransom.

In my games however I will count it as a title when calculating ransom. The d'Arc Lady is just to valuable to obligate a player to release here for only 2 deniers.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fabrizio N
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
badge
I don't think so
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The evidence for D'Arc not being a Title seems rather convincing to me too.

I would think the Templars and the Teutonic Knighs should be seen as Title but I agree it's messy and difficult to call at this stage.

I'll add some of the stuff that has been discussed here to my compendium, but nothing on Templars as yet.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Italy
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
His guys I have a question:
Victory condition with expansions.

In the base game is
Solo 3 vp
Alliance 4 vp

With crusades
Solo 3 vp
Alliance 5 vp.

With templars and teutonics grand masters does it change?

I mean with all (crusade,templars and teutonics: 2vp via election and 5 vp via conquer) it is:
Solo 3
Alliance 5

It seems to me easier in solo.. is there any official rule?

The variant I found on the French All in one compendium says
Solo 4
Alliance 5

Did anyone test it?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I AM Not A Number
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Personaly my group always add +1VP to solo and alliance win conditions when we play with Templars+Teutonics or Templars+Teutonics+Crusades.
Sometimes we even add +2VP for alliances when we play with Templars+Teutonics+Crusades.
This prevents the game from finishing too quickly with these expansions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Italy
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So with all the expansions you suggest

Solo 4 vp
Alliance 6 vp (plus 1,it was 5 vp as written in the rules) or even 7 vp (plus 2 as you wrote).

7 vp sounds very nasty! Crusades are very difficult to win and you do not know when actually vp are availabe!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I AM Not A Number
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I meant 4 vp in solo and 5 or 6 vp in alliance.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.