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Subject: "Sir, why did you shoot me?" Cop: "I don't know." rss

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Paul DeStefano
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Black therapist trying to help an autistic patient who wandered off and was playing with a toy truck is shot by police as he is lying on the ground, with his hands in the air, explaining that the other guy is his patient.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/20/black_man_...
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Paul DeStefano
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jeremy cobert
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Shot while black , I thougbt we were over this meme.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
Shot while black , I thougbt we were over this meme.
Maybe if an unarmed polite black man who was upon the floor was not shot we might be.
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Paul DeStefano
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slatersteven wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
Shot while black , I thougbt we were over this meme.
Maybe if an unarmed polite black man who was upon the floor was not shot we might be.


It amazes me how poised and polite he was if you watch the video. This dude is in control.

Except, of course, the fact that he got shot in the leg apparently for over compliance.
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Christopher Yaure
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jeremycobert wrote:
Shot while black , I thougbt we were over this meme.


That would explain many of your other posts.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Geosphere wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
Shot while black , I thougbt we were over this meme.
Maybe if an unarmed polite black man who was upon the floor was not shot we might be.


It amazes me how poised and polite he was if you watch the video. This dude is in control.

Except, of course, the fact that he got shot in the leg apparently for over compliance.
It seems (literally) for no reason, even the cop seems to not know why he shot him.
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J.D. Hall
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I'm a big, big supporter of cops (worst job in America), but this kind of shit does not help their position. At least throw in a few unarmed white guys getting shot to balance things out.
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Boaty McBoatface
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galad2003 wrote:
Not that this is an excuse AT ALL - but maybe the cops are nervous due to all the cop shootings lately?

Also, this incident shows how poorly understood autism is. Pretty awesome the guy was more concerned that his autism patient would be shot than himself. Sadly he was wrong.

Now this is a reason for people to protest.
And all the other times?
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Looking again, I'm thinking the dude might be Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince.
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Josh
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Geosphere wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
Shot while black , I thougbt we were over this meme.
Maybe if an unarmed polite black man who was upon the floor was not shot we might be.


It amazes me how poised and polite he was if you watch the video. This dude is in control.

Except, of course, the fact that he got shot in the leg apparently for over compliance.


It's an awesome feat of self control, but it isn't surprising considering his line of work. He's used to calming emotionally unstable people, and here he is dealing with police. If a patient hits you or injures you, you can't get excitable it just ratchets up their own emotional tension, he is employing those same skills on the police. The question is an instant prompt to reflection, which attempts to get an unstable person to associate cause and effect(a frequently broken connection in mental health along with proportionate response) and it works. That police officer instantly admits he does not know why he did what he did, and had to reflect on it in that moment.

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Pontifex Maximus
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slatersteven wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
Shot while black , I thougbt we were over this meme.
Maybe if an unarmed polite black man who was upon the floor was not shot we might be.


....with his hands in the air to boot.
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Steven Woodcock
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Geosphere wrote:
Black therapist trying to help an autistic patient who wandered off and was playing with a toy truck is shot by police as he is lying on the ground, with his hands in the air, explaining that the other guy is his patient.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/20/black_man_...


This one does look pretty bad for the cop -- can't imagine what the heck he was thinking in these circumstances, but I sure can't see a compelling reason for him to shoot that guy.




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Jon Badolato
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Yeah, this is ridiculously bad. The guy is on his back with both arms up. He supplies the cops with an explanation of who he is and who the other guy is. Anyone with a shred of training can recognize that the patient is autistic or mentally ill, he explains that what he has is a toy truck. You could not get more cooperative than this guy was. Remarkably, they still have all their guns trained on him and he gets shot. Then handcuffed and rolled over !
The only good thing is that the cop seems to have admitted he was wrong instead of the usual coverup.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jonb wrote:
Yeah, this is ridiculously bad. The guy is on his back with both arms up. He supplies the cops with an explanation of who he is and who the other guy is. Anyone with a shred of training can recognize that the patient is autistic or mentally ill, he explains that what he has is a toy truck. You could not get more cooperative than this guy was. Remarkably, they still have all their guns trained on him and he gets shot. Then handcuffed and rolled over !
The only good thing is that the cop seems to have admitted he was wrong instead of the usual coverup.
Give it 24 hours, and calls for his sacking.
 
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J.D. Hall
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You know, after viewing the video, it could be the cop had an involuntary movement and pulled the trigger. It's not really an excuse, but the situation really didn't appear that tense just prior to the shot being fired.

Btw, wasn't there a thread recently about how to react when a police officer pulls you over or confronts you, and how that reaction will keep things calm and no one getting shot? Yeah, right.
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Boaty McBoatface
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galad2003 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Not that this is an excuse AT ALL - but maybe the cops are nervous due to all the cop shootings lately?

Also, this incident shows how poorly understood autism is. Pretty awesome the guy was more concerned that his autism patient would be shot than himself. Sadly he was wrong.

Now this is a reason for people to protest.
And all the other times?


it's a case by case basis and I have been pretty clear on making my positions known on the cases brought up here. Too many times though, the left (and BLM) picks the worse cases as to rally behind. Freddie Gray and Ferguson being to well known examples.
Yet you try to find a way to justify even this action.

If a copper is so nervous he shoots a prone unarmed man who is nor resisting then I have to say that man should not , and cannot be, a police officer. Hell I wouild not let him be in charge of a pair of safety scissors.

At best "he was nervous" is "he was not suitable for the role".

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Mac Mcleod
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When you pull a gun, you may kill someone. You have to accept that.

A leg shot could have easily killed the therapist in less than 60 seconds if a major artery was hit.

It is unconscionable that the police would handcuff a bleeding man and not administer any care for 20 minutes. He could have bled out.

I agree shooting a person on the ground with their hands up means you should not be in a position to hold guns on the public again.
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J.D. Hall
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maxo-texas wrote:
I agree shooting a person on the ground with their hands up means you should not be in a position to hold guns on the public again.

Man, you're taking all the fun out of being a cop!
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Daniel
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maxo-texas wrote:
When you pull a gun, you may kill someone. You have to accept that.

A leg shot could have easily killed the therapist in less than 60 seconds if a major artery was hit.

It is unconscionable that the police would handcuff a bleeding man and not administer any care for 20 minutes. He could have bled out.

I agree shooting a person on the ground with their hands up means you should not be in a position to hold guns on the public again.


This happens almost every day. The police do not have an obligation legally speaking to save your life. Their job legally speaking is to control the situation. I agree with you- but that is not what the police see their job as and that is not how the law treats them in 99% of cases.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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galad2003 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Not that this is an excuse AT ALL - but maybe the cops are nervous due to all the cop shootings lately?

Also, this incident shows how poorly understood autism is. Pretty awesome the guy was more concerned that his autism patient would be shot than himself. Sadly he was wrong.

Now this is a reason for people to protest.
And all the other times?


it's a case by case basis and I have been pretty clear on making my positions known on the cases brought up here. Too many times though, the left (and BLM) picks the worse cases as to rally behind. Freddie Gray and Ferguson being to well known examples.
Yet you try to find a way to justify even this action.

If a copper is so nervous he shoots a prone unarmed man who is nor resisting then I have to say that man should not , and cannot be, a police officer. Hell I wouild not let him be in charge of a pair of safety scissors.

At best "he was nervous" is "he was not suitable for the role".



I said above, it is not an excuse at all. I know reading is hard for you. The reason I give cops so big of a benefit of the doubt and don't call for an instant sacking on the spot like you are is for 2 reasons:

1) I am a military veteran and understand how stressful combat situations are. Contrary to popular belief police (and military) personal are not constantly in combat situations. All the training in the world can't prepare you for the real thing and mistakes do happen. You are called upon to make life and death decisions in a split second. Some leeway must be given to individuals who have such a stressful and dangerous job in case they make the wrong decision. How much leeway given should be investigated by experts and not the internet crowd and determined on a case by case basis. The officer saying he was sorry is a good mitigating factor however the callous disregard they showed after they shot him.

2) I believe in due process and following procedure. When mistakes like this happens, it is too easy to give into emotions and say "this guy should never be a cop again!" But thank goodness cooler heads prevail in our society and we follow rules. This cop should go through the departmental rules regarding an incident like this. This officer should also go through the due process of the law if he is charged with a crime. If society wants to change those rules, then great we have procedures for doing that. let's follow that a go through the legislative process for doing so.

That being said, the cop fucked up. I don't know if he should ever be a cop again. I am going to leave that up to experts to decide because I am not one of them.* I do know that in the military, I had young kids under my command that sometimes fucked up and sometimes badly, after they were reprimanded sometimes they would be the best sailors I ever worked with.

*If the system is corrupt and we can't trust experts to make that decision then we need to fix that corruption. However, with big government, unions and two sets of justice (one for the Clintons and one for regular folk) maybe that isn't possible anymore.
Sorry, you said it was not an excuse, but that is just what it is. It is a way of excusing his action.

He was not in a combat situation, he was not even in a "being slightly threatened by aggressive language" situation. This was not a life and death scenario, it was not even a life or being slightly upset scenario.

Again you are not making excuses just offering mitigating factors.

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galad2003 wrote:


That being said, the cop fucked up. I don't know if he should ever be a cop again. I am going to leave that up to experts to decide because I am not one of them.* I do know that in the military, I had young kids under my command that sometimes fucked up and sometimes badly, after they were reprimanded sometimes they would be the best sailors I ever worked with.


Errrr, did one of these kids shoot someone laying on the ground with his hands up? I'm assuming their fuck ups were of a lighter sort.

This officer should never have a badge again. I don't know how more cut and dry it gets than this. Sure, give him his due process, by all means. But make sure that due process comes with a dollop of not just excusing the behavior because of the "circle the wagons" mentality and the influence of police union reps.
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I think it's worth noting that the therapist who got shot was literally trying to save his patient's life (because he knew the toy truck could be mistaken for a gun) and knew he was risking his life to do so. That guy is a goddamn hero.
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And I think cops should have a duty of care until EMS arrives. They should at least apply simple compression, confirm the person can breath regularly, put anyone injured in a more comfortable position.

Once they put the handcuffs on someone, they are responsible for that person's life because that person can't take care of themselves any more.

It is unbelievable the cases we have seen here where the cops stand around chatting while the person dies.
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remorseless1 wrote:
You know, after viewing the video, it could be the cop had an involuntary movement and pulled the trigger. It's not really an excuse, but the situation really didn't appear that tense just prior to the shot being fired.


I'd thought that the operational protocol in this kind of situation was to lay the finger alongside the trigger-guard whilst in a negotiation, is that not the case?
 
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