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Subject: Prediction Time! rss

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Drew Hauge
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There's been plenty of discussion about the known text in the rule book, but how about the blank spaces? What's your boldest prediction for how the rules might change as the game progresses?

Here are the sections in the rule book that have blank spaces for stickers to be added (number of spaces in parentheses):

- Setup (2)
- Sailing (4)
- Damage (1)
- Winter Phase (1)
- Hire Advisors (2)
- Activate an Advisor (1)
- Exploring the Sea (2)
- Research (1)
- What's on the Islands (1)
- Raiding a Ship (2)
- Colonies (6)

It probably goes without saying, but no spoilers in this thread please! As the title suggests, predictions only!
 
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Bryan Yeager
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- Setup (2)
- Sailing (4)
The third slot explains encounters with sea monsters. It is the biggest one, and I'd imagine that there'd be a good amount of detail there.
- Damage (1)
- Winter Phase (1)
- Hire Advisors (2)
- Activate an Advisor (1)
- Exploring the Sea (2)
- Research (1)
- What's on the Islands (1)
- Raiding a Ship (2)
- Colonies (6)
 
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Keith Pishnery
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This post made me realize how much I'm going to have to heavily review my thread subscriptions post-Gen Con.
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Drew Hauge
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One part that really intrigues me is the explorer page, with blanks for "Exploring the Sea" and "Research". The research part also mentions that "there are no maps or charts at the start of the campaign".

I'd guess that once certain maps/charts are discovered, players will be able to do an explore action when their ship is on an empty sea space that is marked on a map. I'm guessing that these explorations could lead to a new sticker being placed on that tile, similar to when an island site is explored.

I could also see sea explorations sometimes yielding hidden treasures rescued from the deep. Maybe not without making some sea people angry though.

For the research part, I'd bet that we'll encounter some island sites where research can be performed. Not sure whether this would be a spot where players just get a research boost, or if you'd need to go to these spots to obtain the aforementioned maps/charts.

To me, hunting for ancient treasures buried in the ocean says "Indiana Jones in the age of sail" more than just about anything.
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Becq Starforged
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- Setup (2)

One of these will almost certainly relate to this section, quoted from the "Missing a game" section of the rules:
SeaFall, p22 wrote:
During setup, place any cards that the absent province has in their
usual spots (treasure room and/or council room). Place their ships in
their home harbor. Do not place gold or goods in their province.
If the province is entitled to an enmity token due to being of lesser
prominence, they still get the token(s)
.


It kind of looks as though the new rule will say something along the lines of "take an enmity token from each province that is ahead of you in prominence, and place it in your At War box". It's also possible that it will be threshold driven (ie, only provinces that are at least X glory ahead of you).

I would say that the other will deal with new types of cards that we can keep between games. Perhaps artifacts of some sort? Or it may just deal with research cards.

- Sailing (4)

I've got to think that one entry will deal with the mysterious arch that's big enough to sail a ship through...

- Damage (1)

This seems like a pretty strong hint as to what will go here:
SeaFall, p9 wrote:
The hold is for holding goods. A ship may have a number of items in its hold equal to its hold value. In later games, the hold also shows how hard it is to sink when attacked.


- Winter Phase (1)

Probably something about production of goods and gold by colonies.

- Hire Advisors (2)
- Activate an Advisor (1)
- Exploring the Sea (2)

This will likely talk about how to place new islands. My guess is that you have to make an Explore or Sail roll against the difficulty of the next row. Success will probably be linked to opening an envelope, containing the necessary stickers.

- Research (1)
- What's on the Islands (1)
- Raiding a Ship (2)
- Colonies (6)

Creating colonies, improving colonies, attacking (and capturing) colonies...
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Drew Hauge
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Re: Becq's comments above--

-Setup

I bet you're right about the enmity tokens- good catch on that. Also agree that the other setup sticker will probably be about research cards (and/or any known charts/maps).

-Damage

Also agree regarding the damage sticker- it almost certainly will relate to ship vs ship raiding and the hold comment you pointed out.

-Sailing

For sailing, I have a few thoughts:

1) Portals? It's a big board, and I wouldn't be surprised if they create some ways to move large distances quickly. Could be the eventual significance of that arch..

2) Hazards? Wouldn't be surprised to see certain empty sea tiles become dangerous, either making it so you can't move through it or do so at an added cost (-1 sail, roll for possible damage, etc)

3) Continents? I'm not sold on this one, but if there are continents we would need to know how they affect movement.

-Exploring the Sea

Good point regarding placing new islands. I still think we could see other things placed in empty sea spaces too though, From the terminology section:

Quote:
Empty Sea: An open sea space with no sticker or island in it. At the start of the campaign, all but four open sea spaces are empty sea spaces.



 
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Keith Pishnery
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Crazy flights of fancy and baseless speculation incoming:

SETUP
1. A new kind of token? Related to flipside of enmity token? Let's not forget about those.
2. Ditto

SAILING
3. How to use the Stone Gate to travel farther away
4. Traveling over land?
5. Dangerous waters, effects sail moves somehow
6. How you sail around whirlpools and hurricanes, etc.

ENDEAVORS
7. Something to do with Repairing your ship in the sea? Mostly because this comes between Damage and Sinking.

YEARS and ROUNDS
8. A new step to Winter that likely has to do with colonies or new operators in the sea, like krakens and whatnot.

TAKING YOUR TURN
9. Because the heading still says Advisors OR Treasure, I suspect this will modify Advisors, there might be new kinds of Advisors, like support Advisors that you can play after activating? (Rule 11 gives this some weight).
10. Same as above
11. Same as above

EXPLORER'S GUILD
12. Mechanism for delving into open sea spaces for treasure
13. More of same
14. Most likely more information about how to play Research cards during endeavors

WHAT'S ON THE ISLANDS?
15. The answers to the Tombs/Ancient Statues/Strange Temples questions above it.

SOLDIER'S GUILD
16. The place where half your players get really nervous and the other half smile maniacally.
17. The place where everyone goes "oh shi—!"

COLONIES
18. How to found a colony
19. Given how this is a slightly different size, I'm going to say it's a picture of what's in a colony.
20. How to raid a colony
21. Plunder a colony
22. Take over a colony
23. Destroy a colony
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Drew Hauge
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kpishnery wrote:
TAKING YOUR TURN
9. Because the heading still says Advisors OR Treasure, I suspect this will modify Advisors, there might be new kinds of Advisors, like support Advisors that you can play after activating? (Rule 11 gives this some weight).
10. Same as above
11. Same as above

Perhaps we'll get a new class of advisors that can be assigned to lead a colony? That would explain the space for rule 11 too.

kpishnery wrote:
WHAT'S ON THE ISLANDS?
15. The answers to the Tombs/Ancient Statues/Strange Temples questions above it.

I'm guessing it will tell how to do a research action at these locations to reveal additional maps/charts/treasure. Indiana Jones.

kpishnery wrote:
SOLDIER'S GUILD
16. The place where half your players get really nervous and the half smile maniacally.
17. The place where everyone goes "oh shi—!"

Haha, spot on. This game is going to be awesome!
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Badger Man
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The more threads I read on Seafall the more I want to know more and want to stop reading

I really get the impression that there are going to be some truly crazy twists and turns. Do I want to speculate? No. Am I speculating? God yes!

All I can say with certainty is that I want this game, now! Now! NOW!

Apologies that my comment has nothing to offer in terms of speculation
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Becq Starforged
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badger101x wrote:
The more threads I read on Seafall the more I want to know more and want to stop reading

I really get the impression that there are going to be some truly crazy twists and turns. Do I want to speculate? No. Am I speculating? God yes!

All I can say with certainty is that I want this game, now! Now! NOW!

Apologies that my comment has nothing to offer in terms of speculation

I feel your pain, Bilal. Yes, I feel your pain...
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Badger Man
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Becq,

I am glad someone is

As to your point about the hold being related to damage, I get the feeling that the game may borrow from Merchants and Marauders where your Hull strength is partly made up by your hold capacity... makes sense though I don't know if you have played the game...
 
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Clinton Rice
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drewhauge wrote:
For the research part, I'd bet that we'll encounter some island sites where research can be performed. Not sure whether this would be a spot where players just get a research boost, or if you'd need to go to these spots to obtain the aforementioned maps/charts.


Pretty certain you won't have to sail anywhere to do research. By design, each guild has one action (other than sailing) that requires ships to be present and one that does not.Exploring is the ship present action for the exploration guild.

The research action involves drawing a number of research cards (usually one) and selecting one to keep. It doesn't require an island. What we don't know yet is how/when we get.research cards, how the research is conducted, or what the benefits are.
 
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Becq Starforged
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KoalaXav wrote:
Pretty certain you won't have to sail anywhere to do research. By design, each guild has one action (other than sailing) that requires ships to be present and one that does not.Exploring is the ship present action for the exploration guild.

Hm. I'm not sure I entirely buy this logic. For example, the Buy and Sell actions both require a ship to at least have been present recently (if not at the time of the sale).

Quote:
The research action involves drawing a number of research cards (usually one) and selecting one to keep. It doesn't require an island.

It doesn't yet, but I'm not sure its safe to take that for granted in every circumstance. For example, I would not be at all shocked to find something like this in the Captain's Booke for an exploration result:

"Of those brave souls who accompanied me on my foray into the hidden tomb, only three of us escaped with our lives. Was it worth the cost? There was no gold, no jewels, as we had hoped to find. But there was a book -- solidly bound in iron, which is unusual to find in such a primitive setting. What secrets will be found therein?"

The text might then go on to tell you to take the contests of envelope X, which turn out to be a research card.

We'll see, if we ever get our hands on a copy of the game...
 
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Julius Besser
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Becq wrote:
KoalaXav wrote:
Pretty certain you won't have to sail anywhere to do research. By design, each guild has one action (other than sailing) that requires ships to be present and one that does not.Exploring is the ship present action for the exploration guild.

Hm. I'm not sure I entirely buy this logic. For example, the Buy and Sell actions both require a ship to at least have been present recently (if not at the time of the sale).

You do not need a ship in your warehouse to run the sale if you have the goods in your warehouse already.
 
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Becq Starforged
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jayelbird wrote:
Becq wrote:
KoalaXav wrote:
Pretty certain you won't have to sail anywhere to do research. By design, each guild has one action (other than sailing) that requires ships to be present and one that does not.Exploring is the ship present action for the exploration guild.

Hm. I'm not sure I entirely buy this logic. For example, the Buy and Sell actions both require a ship to at least have been present recently (if not at the time of the sale).

You do not need a ship in your warehouse to run the sale if you have the goods in your warehouse already.

You *sometimes* don't need a ship to sell, I agree. I acknowledged that above (bold text). But if you sell to an island market (or to another player's market(*)), you do need a ship present.

(*) But why would you sell to another player's market, you ask -- and can you even? I'm making an assumption here that it's possible to do this through reputation use. As to why ... well, I imagine there may be a case where your ship is far from uncontrolled or friendly markets, but another province has a colony nearby. If you need the cash now, it might be worth the reputation to cash out your cargo now rather than sailing to a friendlier market.

By the way, it's interesting to note that in the rules, Build is the *only* action that specifically says that no ship is needed. Buy, Repair/Upgrade, Explore, Raid, of course, specifically say that a ship must be present. Sell says nothing (I assume because you sometimes need a ship, and sometimes don't). But Research and Tax also don't specify one way or another.

One possibility is that "it goes without saying that a ship isn't needed". I believe that is the case for Tax, since there's no space set aside for future rule updates. But for Research, there is an upcoming change marked -- so while I suspect you're right, I won't totally discount a ship's role until I see the rule sticker that goes there.
 
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Keith Pishnery
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It says in the Hire a Guild section that each guild has the same matrix of actions:
1. Sail
2. Ship Required
3. Ship Not Required

and if you look at the images of the player aid, this matrix is displayed purposefully.

Research, Tax, Sell, and Build are all listed under Ship Not Required.

Research is the most interesting, as the little we know about Research cards is that they can help you with endeavors, but maybe the actual meaning is that 1) you find something on a site, 2) bring it back to your province and 3) do some research that gives you a benefit. In that case Research wouldn't require a ship.
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Becq Starforged
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Huh. So it does. Alrighty, then, I'll declare crushing defeat and withdraw my argument...
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Keith Pishnery
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Becq wrote:
Huh. So it does. Alrighty, then, I'll declare crushing defeat and withdraw my argument...


Come up with some more predictions about Research to discuss and we'll call it even.
 
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Becq Starforged
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What, now I have to do predictions on demand? Well, ok, but you might be getting shoddy predictions...

Ok, so we know that at least some (and possibly all) research cards give bonus dice to exploration. We also know that they vary (because of the draw multiple, choose one mechanic).

For the research cards that add exploration dice, how much will they add? I'm going to guess and average of +2 dice. How did I come to that number? Well, the nominal "safe" exchange rate of gold to glory is via treasure, structures, and upgrades, which allow for about 10 gold = 1 glory. On the SeaFall map, we can see that the exploration boxes (which I believe are the exploration difficulties to find the island for that box) have glory bonuses that increase by 1 glory per two difficulty (with minor variations). So you need to be able to generate another two successes to get an extra glory, which means you need another 3 dice. That would argue for 9 gold = 3 research cards = 3 dice = 2 successes = 1 glory (1 die per card). But since there's risk involved, I think the exchange rate will be a better, so closer to 2 dice per card. In fact, I think it will vary, perhaps 1-3 dice per card, probably weighted toward 1 or 2.

There may be other bonuses, as well. It's possible that there will be bonus dice for raids, however I tend to doubt that. Research is probably more about unearthing information, and not about developing new weapons. And if they give bonuses to raiding at all, I'm guessing it will only be for island raiding, not province raiding.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see some research cards that grant glory, though these would probably be uncommon, and a single point. (These would represent famous discoveries that advance scientific knowledge but with no practical impact.)

I played around with the idea that some rare research cards might grant permanent upgrades, but I think that this would be too powerful, considering they cost only 3 gold and one action.

How's that?
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Keith Pishnery
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Pretty good thoughts. I imagine a lot of them will work like this, although I do hope some grant some mystical powers or do something fancier than just enhance the existing mechanics. Otherwise they are just another form of events/building/upgrades/advisors. Can't think what exactly though.
 
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