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Subject: Diplomacy at 2-3 players rss

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W. Cracker
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I have continuously been intrigued by this game but unfortunately I would only be able to get 2-3 players involved (myself included) and likely through email interactions. Given these constraints, do those of you who know this game well feel that it's worth a shot?
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S H
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Sure, it's ideal with 7P, but we all have trouble arranging that.
I think if you play with the right people, you'll still enjoy it, even at less-than-optimal.
May I boldy suggest playdiplomacy.com?
Cheap, you and your friends can get into games with others, etc.

Have fun! Oh, and NEVER lie!
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PJ Cunningham
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Boss Trojan wrote:
Sure, it's ideal with 7P, but we all have trouble arranging that. I think if you play with the right people, you'll still enjoy it, even at less-than-optimal. May I boldy suggest playdiplomacy.com?
Cheap, you and your friends can get into games with others, etc.

I second this opinion. If you're going to play by email anyway, might as well use an online Dip server to do the heavy lifting and give you guys a wealth of extra opponents to boot.
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W. Cracker
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Hey thanks! Can you set it up to be sure that at least some of the gamers are your peeps? Of course, from what I hear, they may not be my be peeps for long Me...lie in Diplomacy??? What do you think I am? A gamer
 
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PJ Cunningham
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Most Dip servers just use very simple registration systems to fill up games, so as long as you register at the same time, you should easily be able to get into the same game.

Please note, though, that its considered bad form (if not outright cheating) to use out-of-game alliances to win/rig games.
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W. Cracker
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ironregime wrote:
Most Dip servers just use very simple registration systems to fill up games, so as long as you register at the same time, you should easily be able to get into the same game.

Please note, though, that its considered bad form (if not outright cheating) to use out-of-game alliances to win/rig games.


There'll be no worries about that. The two fellas I play with will take great satisfaction from taking me down if they can. When it comes to gaming, were're great competitors which makes winning that much sweeter. But we also know how to lose with grace.
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Fraser
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Two player, aka the World War I variant in my copy, certainly lets you learn the rules. After a while you will probably discover the stalemate lines and then you will want to move on.

I don't think I have ever tried it with 3 player and can't say I feel a need to try it. The sweet spot, of course, is 7 players, but you can get by with 5 or 6.
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Linus Glenhaber
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MrMzchf wrote:
I have continuously been intrigued by this game but unfortunately I would only be able to get 2-3 players involved (myself included) and likely through email interactions. Given these constraints, do those of you who know this game well feel that it's worth a shot?


3 would be a very different game from 7 players, because the alliances would be only with two possible other players, which might lead to 2 vs 1 players... I think the idea of using online players as well is a good one
 
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linusglenhaber wrote:
3 would be a very different game from 7 players, because the alliances would be only with two possible other players, which might lead to 2 vs 1 players... I think the idea of using online players as well is a good one

Might lead to 2 vs 1?

As Fraser said, the game can be played as a deterministic two player game but that won't hold your interest long. Diplomacy is more than the name of the game, it's the essence, and with 3 players the only thing on offer is "you and me against him". Whoever is him last gets the axe, and you're back to deterministic one on one.

I think you need more for a satisfying experience; anything less than five can't do more than demonstrate the mechanics. It's a game of subtle deal making, and there isn't much subtlety in a knife fight in a phone booth.
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W. Cracker
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Sphere wrote:
linusglenhaber wrote:
3 would be a very different game from 7 players, because the alliances would be only with two possible other players, which might lead to 2 vs 1 players... I think the idea of using online players as well is a good one

Might lead to 2 vs 1?

As Fraser said, the game can be played as a deterministic two player game but that won't hold your interest long. Diplomacy is more than the name of the game, it's the essence, and with 3 players the only thing on offer is "you and me against him". Whoever is him last gets the axe, and you're back to deterministic one on one.

I think you need more for a satisfying experience; anything less than five can't do more than demonstrate the mechanics. It's a game of subtle deal making, and there isn't much subtlety in a knife fight in a phone booth.


Good point. I've been the one with the bullseye on my back in a 3-player game before and the better you do the bigger the target gets. I'm thinking online play with a full compliment of 7 is truly where it would shine from what I know of the game and good old human behavior.
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Samy
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MrMzchf wrote:
I would only be able to get 2-3 players involved

Probably not worth it for 3, definitely not for 2. Although you might get something out of practicing the mechanics.

There's a Hundred Years War variant that famously supports 3 players; you can play it online on vDiplomacy: http://www.vdiplomacy.com/variants.php?variantID=8
 
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David Gibbs
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MrMzchf wrote:
I have continuously been intrigued by this game but unfortunately I would only be able to get 2-3 players involved (myself included) and likely through email interactions. Given these constraints, do those of you who know this game well feel that it's worth a shot?


No. I don't think it is at all even close to worth it.


Ok, if you were going to play two or three turns to learn the mechanics of the game, before joining a group of 7 players to play for real, maybe. But otherwise just no.

It is a great game at 7. It is mostly playable at 6. It really shouldn't be played with fewer than 6.

It has been around long enough, though, that there are probably alternative maps that would play with 5 or 6 players quite well, and would probably be better than the standard map for that number. But less than 5 just does not have anything like the, well, diplomacy that is the point of Diplomacy.

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Mark Helton
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dagibbs wrote:
MrMzchf wrote:
I have continuously been intrigued by this game but unfortunately I would only be able to get 2-3 players involved (myself included) and likely through email interactions. Given these constraints, do those of you who know this game well feel that it's worth a shot?


No. I don't think it is at all even close to worth it.


Ok, if you were going to play two or three turns to learn the mechanics of the game, before joining a group of 7 players to play for real, maybe. But otherwise just no.

It is a great game at 7. It is mostly playable at 6. It really shouldn't be played with fewer than 6.

It has been around long enough, though, that there are probably alternative maps that would play with 5 or 6 players quite well, and would probably be better than the standard map for that number. But less than 5 just does not have anything like the, well, diplomacy that is the point of Diplomacy.




Absolutely agree with every point David made!!!
(I feel that even with six players, it loses something.
Having Italy play provides a sense of balance between the Western 3 powers, and the Eastern 3 powers.)

My two cents worth anyway.
 
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David Gibbs
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markhelton wrote:

(I feel that even with six players, it loses something.
Having Italy play provides a sense of balance between the Western 3 powers, and the Eastern 3 powers.)


Not just balance, but connection. Without Italy, you mostly have an eastern block that resolves to 2vs1, and same in the west, then the winning alliance of each block goes against the other block. Italy means things don't fall out nicely this way, and makes the whole thing far more dynamic. Also, it means there isn't a power vacuum that advantages Austria (not too bad, Austria is in a tough position) and France (who doesn't need another free SC nearby).
 
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