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Hurtgen: Hell's Forest» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rear Echelon (RE) it's own BG rss

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Clay Stone
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Can Rear Echelon units detach and create their own Battle Group (BG)? I'm not seeing anywhere in the rules that restricts this. Rule 9.6.5 just talks about that (RE) can't attack, etc, etc.


Just like to know for future game planning


Thanks
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Doug Johnson

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There is no reason you couldn't form an independent BG out of RE units. Granted due to the restrictions in 9.6.5 they would be defensive only. Historically the Germans did that quite often. At least by doing that, you would solve two issues that would arise from leaving them as corps/army assets.

1. Multi-formation penalty.
2. By creating an independent BG, you are able to use one of the units as a formation HQ allowing a longer GenS path, than you would have if tracing directly to the corps/army HQ.

This doesn't come up much except in Hurtgen, although I suspect it will when Lucky Forward comes out also.

9.6.5 German Rear Echelon Units

The exclusive rules will identify what units (if any) are German Rear Echelon (RE) units. Also see the game’s UTC. When they enter play, they are treated like corps or army asset units. These units may not attack unless stacked with participating non-RE units or a leader. They never fulfill combined arms requirements (13.6.2d).
 
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Joseph Youst
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Actually RE units should NOT be able to form their own independent BGs. They just did not have the training nor communication equipment to do so. They must be attached/commanded by some higher HQ. Either Div, or attached to another sub formation from a div, or directly to Corps or Army HQs - in which case they will count against the 24 and 12 attachment limit of those Corps/Army HQs.
 
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Nolan Hudgens
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Weren't the units shown as RE still undergoing training? Or else they were convalescents not yet ready to return to frontline units. Keeping them as defense- only makes a lot of sense. However a good many such units were called out to resist Market Garden, so that attacking shouldn't be out of the question.
 
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Joseph Youst
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they can attack, but only in conjunction with other non-RE units.
 
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Doug Johnson

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Nolan

Concur, they can attack if stacked with a non-RE unit. While maybe not 100% accurate, the rule keeps those units in the role they were really used. Typically (although not 100% of the time) they were joined up with veteran units to launch limited counter-attacks. Reading accounts of their use in most cases in instances where they were used in a counter attack role, it would have been such a small counter attack that in game turns wouldn't even show up as a separate attack (i.e. it would have been part of the defensive GA).

The danger in using them in the attack role in the game is that some PR checks in GA require you to use the unit with the lowest PR,

so for example if a RE unit with a PR of 3 was stacked with a regular unit of infantry (PR of 6) the owning player would have to use the RE unit if checking to see if a unit will hold rather than retreat

 
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Joseph Youst
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Since Doug is the developer, I am going to let him make the final decision on how he wants these units to be handled re BG etc. He has to make the tough decisions as to what fits and makes sense in the greater context of rules complexity, and gameplay.

Joe
 
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Doug Johnson

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joeyoust wrote:
Actually RE units should NOT be able to form their own independent BGs. They just did not have the training nor communication equipment to do so. They must be attached/commanded by some higher HQ. Either Div, or attached to another sub formation from a div, or directly to Corps or Army HQs - in which case they will count against the 24 and 12 attachment limit of those Corps/Army HQs.


Clarification: RE units can create a BG. Joe and I discussed this and we are going with the rule as it stands.

Some advice:

There may be times that the only way to provide GenS to RE units is to create a separate BG, but better use of these units is to attach them to regular divisions 9.6.1 applies:

9.6.1 Formation Attachment Limit
No more than six units may be attached to a formation. No more than four of these units may be larger than one Coy and no more than one may be an artillery unit. When attaching an entire sub-formation, all units attached to the sub-formation count toward the six-unit total.
Exception: If a single sub-formation consists of more than six organic units, that sub-formation may still be attached to a formation even if it exceeds the formation’s attachment limit. However, no other units may then be attached to that formation.

The other way is to use 9.6.1a. Remember RE units qualify as Infantry type units.

9.6.1a Special Assignments
If a formation’s units have been eliminated, other units of a like type may be assigned to the formation in their place. These units do not count against the formation’s attachment limit.
Example: The 176th VG Division during the Hurtgen battles, was assigned the 1218, 1219, and 1220 Inf Rgts (2 Btns each), plus the 176 Fus Btn. All three organic Rgts and the Fus Btn start the game in the eliminated units box. The German player may assign up to seven infantry type Btns to the division to replace those eliminated Btns.

Using either 9.6.1 and 9.6.1a you then could stack them with regular units and use them to attack and/or take advantage of the higher PR of the other units. And oh by the way, not add to your ADV problems by having extra BG subordinate to your corps.
 
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Clay Stone
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Thanks for the clarifications


 
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