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Subject: Survey confusion ... still rss

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Barry Miller
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Hi all... As I mention in the next two posts, I'm a new player. But more importantly, I absolutely love this game! The community here is great and by reading many of the rules threads, and the FAQ thread, I've been able to clear-up quite a few things. With your comments, I'm finally grasping what the rulebook is telling me! (I think my OCD plus the knowledge I've gained after 50+ years of living, is getting in my way of being able to glean the, "This is what you need to do in order to do this" guidance provided in the rules).

Right now, my confusion is regarding surveying. Yes, there are already many posts (and an entry in the FAQ) here on BGG that address the topic! So perhaps I'm being especially thick-headed right now, but I'm having difficulty correlating the rule in the book, with what's been explained in the forums.

For instance, in the FAQ, Joe wrote this:
Quote:
"What can you survey?
- Look at the location you're on. Find the maneuvers leading away from there to other locations. See how some of those maneuvers have hazards on them? From where you are, you can survey any location that describes one of those hazards.
So if you're in Mars Orbit, you can do maneuvers with the Mars, Phobos, and Solar Radiation hazards on them. Therefore, you can survey the locations Mars, Phobos, and Solar Radiation from Mars Orbit. (Exploration, p31)
"

Well, that certainly makes sense as written and leaves no doubt in my mind! Thusly for my upcoming "Mars Survey" mission, I'll do exactly has Joe describes above.

So I guess my real issue is the way it's written in the rulebook, which had me scratching my head for quite a while last night...
Page 31 says:
Quote:
"Whenever you have a probe or capsule in a location with a maneuver that has an exploration hazard, you may use Surveying to look at the other side of the location card."

I bolded, "in a location" because that's the part that's throwing me off and isn't jiving with what Joe wrote in the FAQ. Here's why: When I read, "...in a location...", I read it as that, I have to have my spacecraft on the location with the hazard which I want to survey. IOW, I'm equating "in" with "on".

So while I understand what Joe wrote in the FAQ, I'm still not getting that same interpretation out of the rules. Can someone help me see past my thick-headedness?

 
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Robert Manning
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There are two kinds of survey in Leaving Earth: survey missions and survey actions. A survey mission is completed when the target location is revealed to all players -- it doesn't matter how it was revealed and any component could be used if it is being landed on. The survey action may be performed only by undamaged probes and undamaged capsules and is done from a location that has a maneuver with the target location's hazard on it.
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Israel Waldrom
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Quote:
"Whenever you have a probe or capsule in a location with a maneuver that has an exploration hazard , you may use Surveying to look at the other side of the location card.


I think the sentence would make a little more sense if "...relating to that hazard." was added to the end. it's implied, esp from the FAQ, but not stated.
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Andrew Schoonmaker
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bgm1961 wrote:
So I guess my real issue is the way it's written in the rulebook, which had me scratching my head for quite a while last night...
Page 31 says:
Quote:
"Whenever you have a probe or capsule in a location with a maneuver that has an exploration hazard, you may use Surveying to look at the other side of the location card."

I bolded, "in a location" because that's the part that's throwing me off and isn't jiving with what Joe wrote in the FAQ. Here's why: When I read, "...in a location...", I read it as that, I have to have my spacecraft on the location with the hazard which I want to survey. IOW, I'm equating "in" with "on".

So while I understand what Joe wrote in the FAQ, I'm still not getting that same interpretation out of the rules. Can someone help me see past my thick-headedness?

Consider the Mars Fly-By location. It has a maneuver to Mars, involving three hazards: re-entry, landing, and the Mars hazard.

So if you are in the Mars Fly-By location, the maneuver to Mars has the Mars exploration hazard, and therefore you may use Surveying to look at the other side of the Mars card.

The antecedent of "... the location card" in your quoted sentence could perhaps be clearer, as mogust points out, but since Mars Fly-By itself has nothing hidden on the other side, it would be pointless to be able to look at it.
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Barry Miller
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NeonElephant wrote:
So if you are in the Mars Fly-By location, the maneuver to Mars has the Mars exploration hazard, and therefore you may use Surveying to look at the other side of the Mars card.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I get what you're saying as that's the same way Joe explains it in the FAQ. But the way I read the rule is that you have to be in the same location as the unexplored hazard, in order to explore (survey) it.

My problem is that everyone else seems to be fine with the way its worded and gets what it's saying, so I perceive the problem to be on my end. I can be thick-headed sometimes and I think this is one of those times.

 
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Barry Miller
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rmanning wrote:
There are two kinds of survey in Leaving Earth: survey missions and survey actions. A survey mission is completed when the target location is revealed to all players -- it doesn't matter how it was revealed and any component could be used if it is being landed on. The survey action may be performed only by undamaged probes and undamaged capsules and is done from a location that has a maneuver with the target location's hazard on it.

Robert, Thanks...

So what you're saying is that the Survey Mission can be accomplished in two ways:

1) Land any component at the location with the unexplored Exploration Hazard and look at (or reveal) the other side. (Page 30).
or,
2) From a distant location that has a maneuver printed on it which shares the same icon as the Exploration Hazard being explored, you may use the Survey Advancement to accomplish the same thing. (Page 31).

If I got that correct, then I get it!

The part that I was totally missing is how the icons that are printed just above each "? UNEXPLORED" box are unique to that Exploration Hazard, and that the same icons printed on nearby location cards are linked to that hazard! That particular iconography and linkage simply escaped me, till now. I didn't pick that up from reading the rulebook. I don't know where I missed that as it makes sense to everyone else. But now it makes sense to me!

Thanks again!

Edit: Inserted the word "exploration" to better distinguish Exploration Hazards from other types of in-game hazards.

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Bitchy Little Boy
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... so I can bear with you, please!
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bgm1961 wrote:

2) From a distant location that has a maneuver printed on it which shares the same icon as the hazard being explored, you may use the Survey Advancement to accomplish the same thing. (Page 31).


Well, you do not explore a hazard, you explore a location. A hazard, which is a is a "symbol" (an icon), simply highlights an additional risk of a manoeuvre. The location hazard is actually the astronomical sign for that location (or the generic sign for radiation, in the case of the Solar Radiation), which is also displayed on the centre of that location tile.

I suspect this is the terminology difficulty you are experiencing.
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Barry Miller
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Yeah, in my post just above yours, I should've used the term, "exploration hazard" (per pg 31), instead of simply, "hazard". Doing so would ensure there's no confusion with "maneuver hazard" (pg 24).

As matter of fact, I'll go back and fix that.

Thx!


 
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